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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : Optional names for individual rooms
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Rabscuttle
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 icon Optional names for individual rooms (+2)  
Sometimes you don't want a room to be called by its coordinate name

So instead of a room being called "Fifth Level: Once North, Twice West", maybe you want to call it "The Heart of Darkness" or "The Interlude" or "In which Beethro kills a bunch of roaches with his sword" or "BOSS BATTLE" or "Lost in a maze"

This name is what would get displayed at the top of the play screen.

There would need to be an option to display the true-DROD-level-coordinate name (for H&S, screenshots etc) - eg mouseover or click to toggle the name or something.

The automatically generated name on the forum (for H&S and screenshots) could be something like:

Hold: Level: X North, Y West (Unique Name)
or
Hold: Unique Room Name (Level: X North, Y West)
[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-30-2011 05:38 AM]
09-30-2011 at 05:37 AM
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Tim
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Rabscuttle wrote:
There would need to be an option to display the true-DROD-level-coordinate name (for H&S, screenshots etc) - eg mouseover or click to toggle the name or something.
This part is definitely not a good idea. People are already having problems with Secret Rooms in H&S (etc.), and this will only confuse them more.

Not many people will check what the alternative name of a room is before going to H&S, and we'll end up with H&S threads all over the place.

=====

Another, bigger, gripe though is that this optional name idea will cause so much more work for HAs that I can't ever agree with this.

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[Last edited by Tim at 09-30-2011 10:13 AM]
09-30-2011 at 10:12 AM
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larrymurk
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I've got to say I like the idea of being able to name rooms. I don't know the best way to implement it.
09-30-2011 at 12:49 PM
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Jacob
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Maybe the solution is to have the option to remove the word "Entrance" from levels that only have one room?
Or just remove it altogether?

This, to me, seems to solve all the problems - no need for alternate coordinates, finding rooms in H+S is unambiguous, and if someone wants a specific room name in isolation, put the room in a separate level (linked by stairs/scripting/cutscenes).

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09-30-2011 at 01:14 PM
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Rabscuttle
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Tim wrote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
There would need to be an option to display the true-DROD-level-coordinate name (for H&S, screenshots etc) - eg mouseover or click to toggle the name or something.
This part is definitely not a good idea. People are already having problems with Secret Rooms in H&S (etc.), and this will only confuse them more.

Not many people will check what the alternative name of a room is before going to H&S, and we'll end up with H&S threads all over the place.

=====

Another, bigger, gripe though is that this optional name idea will cause so much more work for HAs that I can't ever agree with this.

You can only post in H&S via "Find Help for A Room" so you need to know the level name at least.

The problem with secret rooms is that architects mark them as hidden so they don't appear unless you have CaravelNet. Also architects hide room images unless CaravelNet knows you have visited them which doesn't help either.

The alternate room names could appear where the coordinates normally do. (with or without coords in parentheses)

==

How will it cause more work for HA? The only extra work would be checking for profanity etc in the room names - and the list of custom room names could go under the "View all text" link.
[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-30-2011 04:02 PM]
09-30-2011 at 03:59 PM
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Trickster
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Here is my suggestion.

1) Let someone name each room whatever they want. The room name may or may not contain the level name. By default, the room name will be $Level$ : $Coordinates$, but you should be able to use a different string or move the pieces around.

2) When you hit Enter, instead of showing a truncated piece of the hold name (sheesh), have the top of the box list three full lines:

* Hold Name (Riddle of the Bar)
* Level Name (Trickster)
* Coordinates (Once West)

This will be the canonical way the room is identified on CF, whereas the title at the top of the screen can be whatever we want it to be.

I don't see anything wrong with an approach like this, and the chat window needs to have the hold information displayed better anyway since right now it's kind of a joke. (I can tell the first ten letters of the hold I'm in and nothing more, for most holds.)

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[Last edited by Trickster at 09-30-2011 04:22 PM]
09-30-2011 at 04:21 PM
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Tim
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Rabscuttle wrote:
The problem with secret rooms is that architects mark them as hidden so they don't appear unless you have CaravelNet. Also architects hide room images unless CaravelNet knows you have visited them which doesn't help either.

The alternate room names could appear where the coordinates normally do. (with or without coords in parentheses)
If the alternate room names are hidden from view in any way, then you will find some players having trouble with that.

It's also strange to expect every player to know how every bit of the DROD screen work. I think I kind of remembered someone recently who doesn't know how the minimap works, and now we have to expect them to learn even more?

How will it cause more work for HA? The only extra work would be checking for profanity etc in the room names - and the list of custom room names could go under the "View all text" link.
So are you suggesting that there is even more work here for Schik as well? In that case it seems to be a really elaborate request.

Trickster wrote:
1) Let someone name each room whatever they want. The room name may or may not contain the level name. By default, the room name will be $Level$ : $Coordinates$, but you should be able to use a different string or move the pieces around.
Player and HA problems aside, how do you think the architect should work with these kinds of $level$ : $coordinates$ things? Does every room has its own default set of $Coordinates$ or does every room share the same $Coordinates$? If it is, does that mean that the architect has to set the $Coordinates$ in every room?

The idea sounds like a punishment to architects who just wanted to change only some rooms.

(On the other hand, that could be very useful if I want to change the location text into a stock ticker ;))
2) When you hit Enter, [...]

This will be the canonical way the room is identified on CF, whereas the title at the top of the screen can be whatever we want it to be.
My opinion on hiding the name? See above.

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10-01-2011 at 01:21 AM
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Tim
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Trickster wrote:
You're reading some very complicated and silly things into my suggestion. I guess its because you resist the idea a lot and don't want to see it implemented, but maybe I was just unclear, so let me be specific.
Since you don't want to discuss this idea further, let me apologise first for doing any detailed analysis on unfinished ideas :)
I'll use the gimmick I've discovered for my hold because it's perfect for it, and just hope it doesn't get fixed before I publish. :P
Please take your time. I know we will ;)

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10-01-2011 at 09:44 AM
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Syntax
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Tim wrote:
Trickster wrote:
You're reading some very complicated and silly things into my suggestion. I guess its because you resist the idea a lot and don't want to see it implemented, but maybe I was just unclear, so let me be specific.
Since you don't want to discuss this idea further, let me apologise first for doing any detailed analysis on unfinished ideas :)
I'll use the gimmick I've discovered for my hold because it's perfect for it, and just hope it doesn't get fixed before I publish. :P
Please take your time. I know we will ;)
I'm with Trickster on this one and find your replies quite strange. Your first quote mentions her not wanting to discuss things further yet that is not apparent from what she said. I also personally look forward to seeing this hold and find your second comment less than encouraging.

It's apparent there is a use of level naming which fits the theme of the hold so I think the point raised is valid, and I for one agree that naming a level should be possible without disturbing the current reference points.

So yeah, I'd say "let's add a text field for a custom level name"
10-01-2011 at 09:59 AM
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Tim
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Syntax wrote:
I'm with Trickster on this one and find your replies quite strange. Your first quote mentions her not wanting to discuss things further yet that is not apparent from what she said. I also personally look forward to seeing this hold and find your second comment less than encouraging.
You're just misreading me. If my first comment was wrong then I obviously didn't understand what she said. What does she meant by that then?

And as the second comment, HAs testing is very understaffed at the moment, so much that I'm actually testing all of the submitted holds. If you think you can do it faster than why don't you join the HAs?

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10-01-2011 at 10:15 AM
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Syntax
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Ok cool - was HA before.

I misread the "I know we will" to mean "we're not looking forward to it being released"
10-01-2011 at 10:50 AM
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Doom
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Room titles certainly added to the flavor in VVVVVV, don't think it's an unthinkable idea at all. Wonderquest had this too - I think it hid the coordinates completely in named rooms though which I'm not a big fan of in bigger levels.

As for the HA part, I'll echo what Rabscuttle said:
How will it cause more work for HA? The only extra work would be checking for profanity etc in the room names
Yes, it'd require extra work from Schik to parse the room name text. It'd require extra work from the other devs too. All features require work from someone. But if the devs decide it's worth doing for the effort, it's not any extra trouble for the HA to check a few more lines of text.
10-01-2011 at 10:51 AM
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Syntax
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But why would it require extra work? It's just a meta-tag no? for in-game display only
10-01-2011 at 10:54 AM
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Doom
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That was in response to this:
Tim wrote:
So are you suggesting that there is even more work here for Schik as well? In that case it seems to be a really elaborate request.
So Schik would have to upgrade the View all text to include room names. Might not be a lot of work, I wouldn't know. It's something to consider anyway. Without that feature you're going to have to go to the editor and click every room to find out there aren't any inappropriately named ones out of the way or accessible only in the editor (which would qualify as extra work to the HA).
10-01-2011 at 11:18 AM
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Syntax
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No doubt it might be extra work... I just saw the level as having an in-game title which was only used whilst playing.
10-01-2011 at 11:22 AM
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Schik
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For the record, it sounds like a very small amount of work to put new "Room names" into the HA interface.

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10-01-2011 at 12:33 PM
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Tahnan
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Or of course you can always label the room with characters that look like letters, assuming you've got some space to put them in.
10-23-2011 at 05:34 PM
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mrimer
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I think it sounds like a cool idea too. A way I've done this before is by putting the room "name" on a scroll near the entrance, but that doesn't look or feel nearly as nice.

I don't want to create more headaches for the HA team, though -- their contribution is very much appreciated in maintaining the general quality of holds being published. And if Tim is The Guy at the moment, I'd like to keep him happy. Let's keep this idea running in a background thread and see what comes of it.

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10-28-2011 at 07:17 PM
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Tim
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mrimer wrote:
I don't want to create more headaches for the HA team, though -- their contribution is very much appreciated in maintaining the general quality of holds being published. And if Tim is The Guy at the moment, I'd like to keep him happy. Let's keep this idea running in a background thread and see what comes of it.
Just wanted to say that I hope I'm not The Guy (no, I don't want to be him either).

Perhaps it was not very clear, but I just wanted to say that I like the idea, but I don't like some (not all) of the implementation ideas suggested in this thread.

I hope for an implementation that does not give any extra work for both HAs and regular H&S users. It should not be difficult to find such a solution.

Perhaps as a result of this, we can also make holds where "The Entrance" room isn't necessary, in case when old partial canonical levels are being reused for official holds (so that we don't need to add Entrance Rooms in Mastery levels. :))


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10-31-2011 at 12:31 AM
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mrimer
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This idea is going into 5.0. You can alter the displayed text via scripting. No one on the dev team has abused it, but it can be used to good effect for additional purposes like keeping a static text on display while solving a custom room puzzle. You can click on the text if you want to see the real room coords.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 06-05-2013 07:59 PM]
06-05-2013 at 07:58 PM
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