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tokyokid
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File: Beethros Volcanic Voyage.hold (18.1 KB)
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icon Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (+1)  
I made this hold a while ago and I'm pretty sure it was up for beta testing, but it never got released. So here it is now pretty much ready to go. If there are any bugs please point them out, and I'll submit it to the H.A.

Even though it's old I still think it's relevant. It had some new puzzle and ideas back when I made it so I'm not sure if anyone else has come along and done the same thing but I still think it's worth releasing.

Thanks.

Submitted.

[Last edited by tokyokid at 07-19-2010 12:21 AM]
06-21-2010 at 11:07 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
I think this is a good medium difficulty hold. Everything looks fine, and I like how you hid some of the secret rooms.

One question though, in 1N1E it is possible to step on some of the force arrows, making the room rather easy. Is this intentional? It is still possible to conquer the room without stepping on the force arrows by having your sword point south.
06-23-2010 at 05:31 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Oh yes it's intentional. I hadn't realized how easy it was to beat the room with the sword in only one direction. I think the hold will benefit If I change it so I will go ahead and do it.

Thanks for the feedback.
06-23-2010 at 06:50 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
I remember this hold from back when you were originally working on it. Nice to see it finally approaching publication!

Josh

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06-23-2010 at 09:21 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Have mastered the hold, and it's fun and not too challenging.

One general criticism is that many rooms need more, or better placed, checkpoints. e.g. the room mentioned above has none in the hot tile area.

Will write up some room specific comments soon.


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06-23-2010 at 11:29 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
A couple more rooms:

2N: It seems the only way to defeat the horde of aumtlich is to drop the last trapdoor so you are outside the end area. That seems kind of cheap. A better end might force the player to engage the aumtlich but have only 10 or so without the brain.

2N1E: A checkpoint would be useful in the area with the trapdoors and tar, rather than having to restart from the island in the middle when I make a mistake.
06-24-2010 at 12:35 AM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
You all already have the Volcano style right?

Jacob, the next version will have a lot more checkpoints. I'll wait on your upcoming comments before I release the next version.

Brian, I will take into consideration a new formation of something behind the trapdoors. And you're right, I'll throw in a couple of checkpoints by the tar.
06-24-2010 at 12:59 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (+2)  
As promised, some comments.
Overall I liked it, a lot of nice work here, but rooms that appeared complicated/challenging often ended up being a bit too simple. Not that there's anything wrong with easier rooms, but some seem a bit too easy in comparison to other ones in the hold.
I get the feeling that a little fine tuning and balancing of difficulty could make this a much more satisfying hold.

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06-26-2010 at 10:30 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
To start off, this hold wasn't meant to bust anyone's balls or anything but as I've learned over the years, yall are pretty damn smart. So I will make some changes to up the difficulty. Room comments in bold have yet to be changed because I haven't thought of a way to fix them for the better and I will get back to it when I think of something.

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Okay, new version at the top. I will get back to the other rooms once I have some ideas. Whew.


06-28-2010 at 02:21 AM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (+2)  
It is looking very good now. A few more comments:

2N: I like the new ending area. Have you thought of replacing the roaches at (6,7) and (6,19) with two more aumtlichs? That would make evading the aumtlich beams a much bigger part of the room.

1N1E: A player can still step on the force arrow at (12,9). Making that square a pit should stop that and still allow the eye to see you.

3N3E: It is actually easy to park the roach at (29,13) near where it starts and then clear out almost all the enemies and come back for the roach. I suggest adding a pressure plate and door like you used on the left side of the room.
06-28-2010 at 02:26 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N: Okay, good idea. Makes the room more challenging. Also I replaced some roaches with evil eyes pointing away so you HAVE to go back and kill them.

1N1E: Fixed

3N3E: Added a force arrow in that spot where the roach could park. A pressure plate and door wouldn't be as practical. As far as I know there are no more cheap spots to hide the roach.

Thanks for your help brian! New version attached.
06-28-2010 at 06:59 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N 3E: still possible to do without bringing any aumtliches to the right side of the room(see attached demo).
3N 3E: roach can be lured at 33,14(without killing eye at 33,15 so roach does not get stuck on force arrow) fairly easily, makes room quite easy.

[Last edited by mxvladi at 06-30-2010 01:31 AM : removed demo]
06-29-2010 at 10:11 AM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N3E: Your demo doesn't work for me. I think I may have since updated the room.

3N3E: Man, I thought I had thought of everything. Good catch. I think you gave me the wrong numbers, but you're talking about the east most eye and the space above it right? I'll add a force arrow to prevent this.
06-29-2010 at 05:59 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
A major unintended solution for 3N3E: You can leave all the eyes alive while bringing the roach through. This makes a lot of places where the roach can be parked while scouting ahead. After the roach is in position and the mimic kills the wraithwing, sending the mimic in to get the last evil eye allows the player to go back and kill all the eyes skipped.

A smaller problem is if I go ahead and proceed killing the eyes and bringing the roach with me, I can still park the roach on the force arrow at (12,22) and scout ahead and kill the aumtlich. The roach can still getout diagonally onto (11,23), but placing an orthosquare or north arrow there can fix this.
06-29-2010 at 09:10 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Sorry Tokyokid, sounds like my suggestion to remove all the force arrows in that room has created more problems than it's solved.
Maybe it would be easier to just put them back.

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06-29-2010 at 10:35 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Yea I guess you're right Jacob. Well it's my fault too for not catching it either.

I think I have made the room perfect now. The force arrows are back. Just play it. I think it finally works.

ALSO: Theres a new room at 2E. Check it out and see what you think.
New version at top.
06-29-2010 at 11:16 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N 3E: weird that my demo doesn't work for you because it works for me even in newest version. Last trapdoor I'm dropping is at 28,14, then I'm moving at 30,14, then - to 30,17 and bombs are blown up.

3N 3E: Either I'm missing something or I can't escape now because of force arrows at 31,18-32,18. Also, I can use eye at 25,18 instead of roach. Or any other eye which can see me.

2E: Slightly better than older version of this room.

[Last edited by mxvladi at 06-30-2010 09:48 AM]
06-30-2010 at 02:38 AM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
The new 2E is an improvement, but I have yet to solve it.

In 3N3E, you need to add a green door near the beginning, I suggest one at (36,16) replacing the small obstacle. mxvladi's problem with this room can be fixed by changing the roach to a tar baby and adding a hot tile under the force arrow at (16,8).
06-30-2010 at 02:03 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Alright thanks for the continuing follow up comments.

3N3E: I tured all the eyes around (bad idea in the first place). Added green doors for escape. And changed the beginning roach to a mud baby.

2N3E: I'll see what I can do to fix this room overall.

ALSO: New room at 1N2E. See what you think.

New version at top.
06-30-2010 at 06:34 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (+1)  
VERY nice hold, I like it a lot. various difficulty.

Click here to view the secret text

07-02-2010 at 03:28 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N3E: Try the room now. The intended solution was to bring a 'Litch over, now that's the way you have to solve it.

3E: Good idea. I'll take out the arrows.

1N2E: I forgot to add a force arrow by the golems. You're supposed to lure them down to the hot tiles.

New version at top.

EDIT: My bad, I put the force arrow in the wrong place in 1N2E. Room is now solvable.

[Last edited by tokyokid at 07-04-2010 12:33 AM]
07-02-2010 at 07:56 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
The updated rooms are working fine.
2N3E is much different as the solution is now plain to see. The earlier version was leaving more open doors to find the solution so I find it slightly easier now.

07-05-2010 at 12:43 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
In my opinion 3E doesn't need force arrows at 5,20; 15,29; 15,30; 17,22; 30,26; 35,18 and 34,18; now first part of this room is better without force arrows at the start, but player can arrive at any of force arrows I've mentioned and wait until most of serpents kill each other. After dropping any of trapdoors under those force arrows player will have to move in direction of those arrows anyway or he'll screw up.

Oh, and 2E needs a couple of checkpoints.

[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-05-2010 01:06 PM]
07-05-2010 at 01:00 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Comments on the latest version:

2N1E: Backtracking problem: The tunnel at the top no longer connects to anything, making 3N1E impossible to leave once entered.

3N2E: Is this one of the rooms you are still working on? It seems really simplistic.

1N: Am I supposed to exit to the south? If so then that removes the challenge of racing from the briars.

2E: This room could use some checkpoints.

3N3E: This room looks solid now. You could force the player to use the mimic to kill the last evil eye by replacing the green door at (6,10) with another force arrow.

1N2E: A suggestion: Move the pressure plate at (1,5) to (1,6) so it is south of the force arrow and make it an on-off toggle plate. Also move the checkpoint at (5,1) to (5,2). This would require the player to move the queen so she spawns when she is on the force arrow (or the hot tile) and the spawned roach holds the door open.
07-05-2010 at 11:49 PM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Thanks guys for your continued testing, suggestions, and patience. This is much more a work-in-progress than I originally thought.

Zorglub, Thanks. I think I'll keep 2N3E the way it is, because now the player has to solve the room the intended way.

mxvladi, If I remove the force arrows then the snakes can now just go wherever they want and It might leave the last section snake free. As I played this, I found this to not be true. So I'll take the force arrows out.

brian_s, Thanks for catching that backtracking problem.
3N2E: Yes, actually this is the last room that I'm not totally feeling great about.
1N: Nice catch. I removed the hot tiles along the bottom corner and walls so you have to exit where the green door is. I ended up having to change the layout of 2N too, but still the same puzzle.
2E: add 3 checkpints.
3N3E: NOW it's solid.
1N2E: Good idea. Done.

Remind me to invite you guys to beta test my next hold, if there is one, keep up the great work! New version at top. IMO, only one more room needs to be changed and that is the north secret room.
:thumbsup :) ;) :D
07-06-2010 at 05:45 AM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Comments on latest changes
3N: had to fight most of the snakes in first section. Then no more snakes in the last two sections. Better challenge and fun.
1N2E: better indeed
2N1E: better SW area


07-06-2010 at 11:21 AM
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tokyokid
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Much appreicated, Zorglub.

New Version at top with a NEW 3N2E. Hold is now about 90% completed.
07-07-2010 at 02:00 PM
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incnone
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
Just played through this--done every room (including the new 3N2E). I haven't found any glaring bugs or seemingly unintended solutions. I'm a little late to comment, but in case you're interested, I'll share my thoughts:
Click here to view the secret text
Thanks for making this!

[Last edited by incnone at 07-07-2010 04:05 PM]
07-07-2010 at 03:51 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
I also solved 3N2N with only 3 snakes without bothering about their length. The room could also benefit with some more challenge in the eye area.
I really liked the self releasing snakes.
07-08-2010 at 09:49 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Beethro's Volcanic Voyage (0)  
2N: Entering from the east is an improvement, now you have to come in with the right orientation. I noticed a hot tile on the edge at (9,31), but there is no corresponding open tile in 1N. You should close that with a pit (the room will still be solvable).

2N1E: The golems and eyes are a neat challenge.

3E: Can you get rid of the first serpent. It seems too hard to drop the first three trapdoors and making sure it ends up on the correct side.

3N2E: Same thoughts as Zorglub above.

07-09-2010 at 12:50 AM
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