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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
At the rate things are going, we might not be onto the next round by then... anyway, contest deadline is tonight, so I'll give our three stragglers (mxvladi, Someone Else and Samuel) another couple of days, and I'll send them reminders by PM.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 07-31-2009 12:47 PM]
07-29-2009 at 09:59 PM
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Alright, it's been a few days. What now?

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08-02-2009 at 12:54 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Okay, here is the collated Level 4. Sorry about the delay, for reasons mentioned in this thread.

This looks like a difficult level, so I can only say good luck... and please let me know how you get on with it.

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08-04-2009 at 02:31 PM
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Chaco
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Uh, wow. Geez. Nuntar is seriously not kidding, this is a tough level.

Some ideas of what to expect:


*Swordsmen
*Stronger zombie-type monsters
*Oremites
*Multiple-mimic manipulation
*Brained monsters
*Tough monsters (guards, gel babies)
*Fegundos, which will do a minimum of around 720(!) damage at this point
*Arrows in different rooms that cause sections to become impassable or trap-like

===

I'd like to suggest a few changes right away, even though I haven't completed the level.

===

Let's add autosave points to each of the three seals, since they're all fairly difficult to get to.

===

The east-pointing force arrow in Thrice North and the North-pointing arrow at Once North effectively trap the player in the eastern edge of that section once they enter. Furthermore, this makes entering the northeast section by the doors in The Entrance rather than the doors in Once North Once West pointless. I suggest that in Once North some of the rubble be cleared to expose a West-pointing force arrow (but still protecting the Swordsman obviously).

In 3N2W, the force arrows are actually aligned opposite to the manner that 3N3W sends you. That is, 3N3W expects an entrance from the south and sends the player to the north, but 3N2W expects an entrance from the South and sends the player exiting North. I don't actually have any good idea on how to fix this one.

===

The Wall-Walking given to the player in 1N can be used to bypass a wall in The Forgotten Temple: Twice North to get at that juicy stash of gems behind the Pirate that would otherwise require money and health to get at, or to bypass the black door in The Disused Sewers: Once North, Quarce East and proceed to the next level (wherein the player will presumably get beaten up, hard), or for a kajillion other things that would be quite helpful.

===

In The Collapsed Chamber, Once South Twice West, I don't think the tunnel next to the large health potion was supposed to be facing North, since you can't actually walk off of it if it's aligned like that.

===

Anyway, I haven't finished the level yet, due to the fact that the seal in 3N2W requires the Wall Walking to get to, which I don't think was intentional.

Oh, one more thing. It's becoming increasingly obvious that there's a number of points in this new level where an Invisibility Potion, Hand Bomb or Portable Orb would come in handy. They are all located somewhere in this hold.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-04-2009 07:07 PM]
08-04-2009 at 07:06 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
OK, here's a new version that fixes some of those issues. I've also, since the Sandstone style doesn't come with default music, made the music change depending on the number of seals you've opened.

* Autosaves added
* Cleared some rubble in 1N; also switched the force arrows round, since if you had to approach the Swordsman from the back the yellow door would never be a choice
* Flipped room 3N2W to align the arrows with neighbouring room 3N3W
* Haven't removed any of the things you can do with Wall Walking since it's not clear that that's really a problem
* Fixed tunnel in 1S2W
* Added splash effects to accompany the boss rising from the water; added lights to DS:1S5W

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08-04-2009 at 09:20 PM
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Blondbeard
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This is really good! I managed to open the seals, but is it intentional that you can't return without sacrificing a wall walk once you've opened the seel at 3N2W? The arrows shut you in, and there's no other way out.

Edit: My stats right at the end: 815/204/227/15/2/0/1.

I have one more skeleton key I can get. One thing that seems a bit less good is that after you beet the water monster, and get the flippers, you want be able to bring the portable orb, and the hand-bomb any further. Perhaps this is intentional, though, since it might prove too good to bring them to later levels... Anyway... Next time I play the hold I will find (hopefully) clever ways to use those items.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-05-2009 02:03 PM]
08-05-2009 at 01:47 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
New version!

* Obstacles replaced with force arrows in 3N3W to allow exit
* Bahamut's stats upgraded to be a good match for Blondbeard's final stats -- if anyone else successfully completes the level, let me know if I've made Bahamut too hard; however
* Two potions available for green keys in the empty room 2N (backup for lesser mortals)
* Filled NW exit from 3S2W with secret wall to make secret room 2S3W harder to find; still up for decision what to put in this room

It is possible to bring any of the accessories into the fifth level... that doesn't need changing....

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08-05-2009 at 05:50 PM
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Would an accessory inventary be out of the question?
08-05-2009 at 09:45 PM
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Nuntar
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Yes, because that might limit the choices people have for the kinds of puzzles they make later on. You can leave any accessories in the slots provided in DS:Entrance, and there will be similar slots in the entrance to future levels, now that there are enough accessories in the hold to produce a need for them.

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08-05-2009 at 10:05 PM
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Oh hey I'm back. I can be put back for Level 3b/5.

Also, shield. Is it gettable? Worth getting? Too good? Too bad?

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[Last edited by hyperme at 08-07-2009 07:52 PM]
08-07-2009 at 07:37 PM
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Depends on how much longer the hold will play. I'd say it's probably worth getting. I got it with the wooden blade. It cost me around 500 lives. I could also have used the hand bomb on the fegundo.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-08-2009 09:34 AM]
08-08-2009 at 09:33 AM
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Nuntar
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Has anyone else completed the level, so we can have another set of stats for comparison before moving on?

If Blondbeard is the only one, could you confirm whether your stats were attained with the modified Level 2:2N?

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08-10-2009 at 05:13 PM
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No. I would probably obtain a bit better stats with the modified version, and I would probably use the hand-bomb on either of the mighty foes (the fegundo guarding the shield, or the water god). If I don't use the hand-bomb, nor the Wall Walk I will get a bit lower score (about 600 less lives).
08-10-2009 at 06:50 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
This is going to be a long and detailed post -- please read carefully.

Round 5

In this round, we go back over Level 3 (The Disused Sewer) and fill in the gaps now that the player has the Flippers. Please, even though there is no new level, download the version of the hold attached to this post.

Samuel

Since nothing has been heard from Samuel since he signed up for Level 4, normally I would leave him out (but he would be allowed back if he returned and said that he was still taking part). However, as the level is already built and I made it to accommodate eight people (in case anyone new joined) I have assigned rooms for Samuel. If he shows up before the deadline and posts to say he is taking part, he will be given the same privileges as everyone else regarding deadline extensions. If, however, nothing is heard from him before the deadline I will design those rooms (before looking at anyone else's -- you'll just have to trust me on that).

Lateness

From now on, there will be a "two strikes" rule for deadline lateness. (It would have been three strikes had I instituted this rule from the outset, as I should have done; now that we're this far in, I don't think a three strikes rule would achieve much.) Mxvladi is considered to have one strike already as he was warned during Level 4 after repeated lateness.

Sewer rooms

All of you are assigned two sewer rooms -- the rooms already filled in during the first stage of this level. In this stage, you may only edit the water parts. You may not replace any water with wall -- use obstacles or doors to limit the player's movement. You may not use any scripting that will interfere with the existing portions of Level 3, such as changing "MonsterATKMult" for the duration of one room.

Edge rooms

Since the area of the water parts is very small, you are all additionally assigned one of the completely empty rooms around the edges of the level. For these rooms, the usual rule goes: you may do anything except edit the edge squares. Most of these rooms have water edges. For these, remember that any accessories placed in the rooms will be impossible to take out of the room, since the Flippers are required to exit. For the rooms with land edges, please make sure to use powerful monsters so that the player cannot do anything in these rooms until he has increased his stats by playing Levels 3 and 4. This isn't a strict rule and it may well end up that the optimal score in the hold is obtained by doing something in these rooms before fighting Bahamut; this isn't a problem. Just use your common sense.

Room assignations:

Jeff_Ray: 3W, 1N2E, 2N5E
The Stew Boy: 2S4W, 1W, 2N2W
Dex Stewart: 1N2W, 1N1E, 2N1W
hyperme: 2S3W, 1S4W, 2N2E
mxvladi: 2W, 2N4E, 5W
Chaco: 1N1W, 3E, 2S5W
Someone Else: 1N3E, 1S3W, 2N3W
Samuel: 4W, 1N3W, 2S2W

Other rules for Round 5:

* Multiplier is still x2.
* Don't change the style or the weather settings. Remember that this level is dark, so use lights to help the player see their way around. I notice that a couple of Level 3 rooms are without lights; if you get one of these, feel free to add lights to the land portions. After this level I will add lights to any rooms that still need them, but I would prefer not to have to do too much of this work myself.
* The only requirement for beating this level is defeating the Bloodworm in 1N; no blue key is required.
* Expected starting stats are 190/220. Suggested starting enemies are Fegundo, Gel baby for low damage; Waterskipper, Aumtlich and Seep for higher damage. Towards the end of the level, enemies such as Pirate and Rock Giant may become fightable.
* The player is expected to have a large number of yellow keys at this point. Perhaps we could try to make the edge rooms use some of them up? Just a suggestion.

Deadline: 18 August, 12 noon GMT

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 08-11-2009 12:09 AM]
08-11-2009 at 12:07 AM
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The Stew Boy
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Whenever I try to play a new game on the hold on this computer, the sword is called 'None' and has the short sword graphic, and so I have 0 ATK overall, rendering it impossible. I'm using a patched version of DROD:RPG. What do I do?
08-11-2009 at 09:24 AM
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Nuntar
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I don't know :? I suggest posting about this in RPG Bugs, and for now, editing the initial room to give yourself 10 ATK.

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08-11-2009 at 11:29 AM
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Someone Else
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This happens to me too.
08-11-2009 at 11:50 PM
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Nuntar
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That's very strange -- the Foil works as intended on my computer, and my copy of the hold is exactly the same as the one attached to the latest post.

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08-12-2009 at 12:22 AM
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Dex Stewart
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I'm gonna admit that I'm one of the people who's late this time. I've had some real life issues, but I should be able to finish my part within two days. Sorry about this.
08-17-2009 at 10:11 PM
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Chaco
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I'll join the late crowd - I'll try to get my submission in before the deadline, but I haven't even finished playing through level 4 yet.

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08-17-2009 at 10:27 PM
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Chaco
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Wow, I have no idea how Blondbeard managed to get statistics that good. I've had a whole lot of trouble just getting all the seals open in the first place without losing too much health, and he's managed to have a good surplus of both health and statistics. Maybe he's making better use of the accessory items than I am?

Anyway, my stats upon trying to take on Bahamut (and failing miserably):

HP: 879
ATK: 172
DEF: 139
GR: 4589
REP: 6549
Keys: 3/1/0/0

Bahamut does around 4,000 damage at this point, which is a little out of my range, both in terms of health available and ATK practical to get. I think you might want to tone him down a bit - probably reduce his health, but not his DEF to still encourage the player to get more ATK.

Anyhow, I might have to redo level 4 *again* to do a better job, but it's a tough level! I think both levels 3 and 4 are getting much harder than levels 1 and 2 were. I'd certainly prefer it if the hold had some leniency built in - unless I'm going about this the wrong way, even getting the three seals open and fighting Bahamut is a tough task for players to complete, let alone getting a good score afterwards.

===

I'll see if I can get started on my rooms for Level 3B - I'll probably repeat what I did for level 4 and do some rooms that don't depend on the character's current statistics too much.

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08-18-2009 at 03:31 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Since Bahamut is a pretty severe chokepoint, I'll add to the currently empty secret room in Level 4 an Elixir, so the player can use it to get past Bahamut if he can't manage it any other way, but for anyone who can do it without the Elixir, the reward is being able to get a much higher score later on.

EDIT: New version of the file, with the Elixir, and Bahamut's stats rejigged. Pace Chaco, I did reduce his DEF, because that reduces the discrepancy between extreme and less extreme optimisers. Elixir currently looks like a Wubba -- I'll add a proper graphic later.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 08-18-2009 07:44 PM]
08-18-2009 at 07:27 PM
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Someone Else
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We just got a new internet filter on my computer, and I'm not sure how I can get my rooms to you. It's done now, but I can't get to any file hosting sites. I could theoretically just wait and submit mine last, but I don't think that you'd want that.
08-21-2009 at 08:44 PM
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Nuntar
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Could you e-mail me the file? My e-mail address is on page 1 of this topic.

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08-21-2009 at 08:54 PM
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Nuntar
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Okay, we're still waiting on the three latecomers. Can I ask that you make your submissions by Tuesday 25 August at the latest?

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08-23-2009 at 12:54 PM
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Chaco
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Nuntar wrote:

Edge rooms

Since the area of the water parts is very small, you are all additionally assigned one of the completely empty rooms around the edges of the level.

Are you talking about the backwards L-shaped area comprised of the rooms from 1S2W to 1S5E to 5E?

If so, has anyone else claimed 1S3E? I could put something in that room.

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08-23-2009 at 04:57 PM
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Nuntar
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No, those rooms are going to remain empty.

The list of rooms is on the previous page of this topic, and everyone has been given two sewer rooms and one edge room. I can't remember right now which co-ordinates correspond to which type.

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08-23-2009 at 05:02 PM
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Chaco
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Fair enough. I've e-mailed my submission now.

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08-23-2009 at 05:10 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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It's 25th. What now?

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Currently playing:
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-Work in Progress:
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08-25-2009 at 08:08 PM
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My rooms are coming along nicely and will be finished in about an hour.
08-25-2009 at 08:22 PM
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