hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

Dex Stewart wrote:
Also, I suggest that you give us some stricter rules regarding the mapping of the level. I don't really know how to explain why, but it seems to me like we could build a much better hold if we knew better how the rooms are connected with each other.

NO! That problem is part of the game (damn it, I lost!)

Anyhow, I'm in for part 3!

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

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[Last edited by hyperme at 06-19-2009 06:34 PM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

I'm in for round 3 also.

Sorry I didn't pay more attention to this; I did play the hold a while back and saw how my rooms fit in but I didn't end up changing them, and I should have posted more comments to that effect.

I'll play through Nuntar's revised round 2 and see how the level works.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Dex Stewart wrote:
Also, I suggest that you give us some stricter rules regarding the mapping of the level. I don't really know how to explain why, but it seems to me like we could build a much better hold if we knew better how the rooms are connected with each other.

I'm really struggling to understand what sort of thing you mean here. Could you give me an example of the sort of rule you're talking about?

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Okay, I've played through Nuntar's version of the hold.

Here's some of my statistics:



Overall, the level was fairly interesting to optimize and determine what sub-goals should be accomplished first, although I think there were more choices that were utterly pointless this time around.

For example, with the statistics at the *end* of my run (at the staircase) Temple Guardians in 4N1W and 4N1E still do 220 damage, which is more than 1 large health potion, so I won't be returning to actually fight any of them for a while.

There's little point in actually bothering with any doors or enemies in 2N unless you seriously need more keys or health and *can't* get it anywhere else. I'm going to be saving the goodies in there until I can kill everything in there for no HP lost.

The rock golem in 2N2W will have to be left for later (or until the player gets the short sword) - but at that point he's going to give a free green key.

===

Two other things that are important to mention:

Nuntar's mechanism in 1N does not, in fact, require five yellow keys to operate. I got the two ATK gems, opened the middle door, locked it to raise myself up, hit the upper bomb with my sword (not killing myself and triggering the upper bomb), door walked north and got two DEF gems, stepped off the pressure plate, then let the bomb trigger the orbs and got the two large health potions. This let me get *three* of the four options for *two* yellow keys, which is far more than Nuntar must have intended.

The NE corner of 1N1W and its surrounding area are still inaccessible. I can solve this problem in my room 2N1W by carving out a passageway from (14, 7) to (14, 9) thus connecting the two eastern entrances, and allowing access to 1N1W when the player uses a yellow key. Should I do this and post a fixed version in this thread?

===

Overall, I think Level 2 has some OK challenges and should be interesting to optimize. I think we did a good job making the blue keys fairly difficult to get to in terms of resource expenditure. The level's not very aesthetically pleasing, but that's alright.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1306
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

I'm in.

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

I've attached a new version of the hold (to my post further up this page), fixing the problem Chaco mentioned in my room 1N. I've also added the passage he mentioned to make the NE corner of 1N1W accessible, and removed the large potion in 1N1E (since even with a brain, the mud mother was too easy for a large potion and a green key to be the reward).

As for Chaco's other points, for the most part I agree, but since those are not level breakers I'll let the designers of those rooms decide for themselves if they want to make further changes. Anyone who wants to change their Level 2 rooms further, just make those changes in your copy of the Round 3 hold and I'll copy the changed rooms to the master hold at the same time as your Level 3 rooms. After the initial stage of building Level 3 is complete there will be no further changes to Level 2.

If the Store Horror only does 400 damage by the time you reach it, I think it needs to be buffed further; has anyone else completed the new version of the level, and if so, how much do your stats differ from Chaco's?

I'm now about to start building the template for Level 3.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-20-2009 11:57 PM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

File: Nameless Fortress.drh (18.8 KB)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

Level 3.

WARNING: This level has a very different set of rules. Please read carefully before you begin work.

This level is the Disused Sewers. It has to be traversed twice: once without flippers to reach Level 4, then a second time with flippers to reach Level 5. Therefore, do not include flippers on the level!!! They will be the reward for beating the Level 4 boss.

You are more restricted on this level. As well as the usual restriction to not change edge squares, you may also not change the walls, water and tunnels placed on your rooms. Also, don't place tunnels that will prevent the pre-placed ones working as they should.

All floor on this level is of the "dirt floor" type. This is because edge squares cannot be changed, so all edge squares on the level will be one floor type, and I wanted one that fit with the sewer theme. As usual, you can change non-edge squares to any of the other floor types (or to wall, pit, water, etc. etc.)

Because you have less floor space per room to work with, for this level only you each have three assigned rooms.

Jeff_Ray, you're the only player who hasn't yet confirmed participation in this round. For now, I've put you on the list along with everyone else; just let me know as soon as possible whether you're in or not.

Room assignations:

Jeff_Ray: 1N2W, 1N4W, 2N4E
The Stew Boy: 1S4W, 1N2E, 1N4E
Dex Stewart: 1S3W, 2S4W, 1W
hyperme: 1E, 3E, 1N3W
mxvladi: 2S3W, 2E, 4E
Chaco: 1N1E, 1N3E, 3W
Someone Else: 4W, 2W, 1N1W
Nuntar: Entrance, 1N, 1S5W

The Stew Boy, you have 1N4E. In this room, don't change the pressure plate or the tar gate and don't put anything in the passage east of the tar gate.

Other rules for Level 3:

* Multiplier for this level is x2. Bear this in mind when placing gems and potions and when deciding on what enemies to use.
* Style for this level is Fortress. Do not change the style or the weather settings. This level is dark, so please, please do make good use of lighting so the player can find their way around.
* To complete the level, the player must open two blue doors and fight a boss. Assuming that obtaining the short sword is necessary to complete this level, the player may still have one blue key left over from Level 2, hence only need to find one more.
* A short sword is available at the start of this level, giving the player expected starting stats of 80/70 including sword and shield. Recommended starting enemies are Goblin, Tar Baby, Soulless; as always remember that the player may have better stats by the time he reaches the later rooms.

Deadline: 28 June, 12 noon GMT

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
IP: Logged

I'm in for this round.

EDIT: You forgot to add characters to reset the Music in each room.

____________________________
I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 06-21-2009 02:45 PM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

I have no intention of adding characters to reset the music in each room. If you want to change the music in one of your rooms, go ahead, and I'll sort things out from there.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

Can we put monsters and items on the water?

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

No, because you only have access to the water areas after Level 4, so we don't yet know what strength monsters would be appropriate. After Level 4, the next round will indeed be filling in the water areas (and the rooms round the edges that are filled with water) on this level.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

Nuntar wrote:

Dex Stewart wrote:
Also, I suggest that you give us some stricter rules regarding the mapping of the level. I don't really know how to explain why, but it seems to me like we could build a much better hold if we knew better how the rooms are connected with each other.

I'm really struggling to understand what sort of thing you mean here. Could you give me an example of the sort of rule you're talking about?

What I meant back there was exactly something like what you did with level 3. To see why I regarded it as useful, look at 2N in level 2. After level 1, I wanted to make a room in which the player can only lose stuff (and all choices involve what to lose). I hoped that the other rooms would be made in a manner that would force the player to at least pass through the room.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Dex Stewart wrote:

Nuntar wrote:

Dex Stewart wrote:
Also, I suggest that you give us some stricter rules regarding the mapping of the level. I don't really know how to explain why, but it seems to me like we could build a much better hold if we knew better how the rooms are connected with each other.

I'm really struggling to understand what sort of thing you mean here. Could you give me an example of the sort of rule you're talking about?

What I meant back there was exactly something like what you did with level 3. To see why I regarded it as useful, look at 2N in level 2. After level 1, I wanted to make a room in which the player can only lose stuff (and all choices involve what to lose). I hoped that the other rooms would be made in a manner that would force the player to at least pass through the room.

I'll admit that during my Level 2 playthroughs I noticed this exact design philosophy when observing Twice North, and proceeded to avoid it like the plague, since some of the hallways ended up intermeshing in ways that allowed me to just walk around the room.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Nuntar, for Level 3, you're planning on giving yourself the rooms 2N2W and 2S2W in addition to the other three rooms you reserved, correct? Currently they're completely empty rooms that are still connected to the main sewer level, so the people whose rooms border those will probably be assuming that you'll be putting something in there.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

If beyond that tar gate leads to Level 5, make sure a pickxe/portable orb/walk walk can't get near it. Then again, if you skip level 4 and 3b, you die in level 5, most likely.

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Rooms 2N2W and 2S2W will be part of "Level 3b" along with the water portions of the level. We'll build Level 4 working from expected stats that assume those rooms have not been entered, and when they are built, the monsters they contain should be too strong to make much difference. As hyperme said, the same applies to 1N6E and Level 5, which can be accessed early if the player uses a portable orb on the tar gate.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

Um, hey guys. Almost half of you have missed the deadline! Wake up!

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

I've sent reminder PMs to the people whose contributions are still missing.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

I just remembered: don't be surprised by the bug in the new version of 2nd level 2N I made. I haven't yet figured out how to fix it, but it definitely is fixable.

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

Almost a week since the deadline. Can't we just skip the people who haven't submitted yet.
I mean, If you sign up for this, do actually do it!

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
IP: Logged

I am totally signing up for level 4, this looks like the best Forum Game yet!

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
IP: Logged

Sorry. I forgot to send my file. I just sent it.

____________________________
I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4596
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Okay. As it happens, I have other commitments tomorrow during the day so I wouldn't be able to put the level together then, so mxvladi has until tomorrow, Sunday 5 July, 10pm GMT and if he has not contributed by then he will be skipped. I will send him a PM to this effect.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

So what happens now?

Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
IP: Logged

His contribution is skipped.
Yay! Today it has been two years since I joined the DROD Forum!

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
IP: Logged

Samuel wrote:
His contribution is skipped.

huh?

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 06-24-2010 11:22 PM]

Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
IP: Logged

mxvladi wrote:

Samuel wrote:
His contribution is skipped.

You are wrong, since I PMed Nuntar my part of level 3 yesterday.

You PMed a portion of a DROD game through a PM.
Hmm, I always thought you couldn't attach files in PM's.

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
IP: Logged

Samuel wrote:
Hmm, I always thought you couldn't attach files in PM's.

You are absolutely right.

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

Samuel wrote:
Hmm, I always thought you couldn't attach files in PM's.

No but you can attach files elsewhere.

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1073
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

So we now have the entire level. Which means we can move onto testing the thing. Hopefully there won't be so many problems with balence this time.

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?