Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

File: Gigantic Jewel Lost.xml (92.2 KB)
Downloaded 72 times.
License: Public Domain

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Well, I'm not sure if you're looking for any more comments on this hold, but I did check the new version. The intended solution for GW 1N1E still works, but I don't think Tahnan's trick does... so, good job. I wouldn't say the added building makes it any easier, but I did use a smarter arrangement of mimics than before.

I think that this hold is pretty much ready except for the typos in the texts. And we need to write the credit scrolls too

But unless something really dramatic shows up I don't think that we are going to modify the room any more.

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Dischorran might be interested to know that Lava Land 5S has also been modified slightly. My demo still works, but does his?

The demo that I have on my computer from Dischorran is broken. Kallor fixed LL5S so that it should be impossible to solve with only 3 mimics. (because the giant was not killed in one turn, but
our script failed to detect it...)

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
If and when you're ready to make an all-out attack on typos and grammar, I'd suggest exporting the hold text and posting it here. It's hard to catch everything that flashes up on the screen when playing through in puzzle-solving mode. For example, there's still a typo in the hold description: "of cource."

I'll upload the texts in this post. Is it possible to
edit the xml-file containing the texts and then load the modified texts back to the hold, or do we need to edit the texts manually?

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Finally, I should let you know that I'm an HA, and have played this hold to give myself a head start towards approval when you eventually submit it. My tools show a few unreferenced image files in your hold. This may mean that your hold file is larger than it needs to be because it contains duplicates of some files. You may want to double check to see if it contains duplicates of:

Click here to view the secret text

×submarine.png
ziggurat.png
rainbowJewel.png
block.png
jewel_bottom.png
jewel_top.png
code.png
numbers_bottom.png
numbers_top.png

Most of the images in this hold are twice in the list that appears when I press F9 on the editor. I've removed the duplicates a few times, but they keep reappearing

I removed them once more. Apparently I chose the wrong ones to remove as custom floors disappeared and special characters lost their custom tiles and I had to reselect them manually. I hope that I found all the places where they were used...

Do you have a tool that could check the staircases and seek the ones that end the hold? As the final ending is done via scripting this hold should have none. Everything seems to be in order when I look on the editor, but that has failed once already.

Sigh... I would really like to have a way to extract the whole hold into some kind of logical human readable collection of xml-files and other files, that could be edited by hand and version controlled with svn or something.

anyway, I'll upload the new version where the duplicates are hopefully removed...

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

Finally made it out of the forest, which I mention mostly because I keep hitting the occasional typo, misspelling, or nonstandard usage (as I suspect you know), e.g. "choise" in one of the tunnel entrances. Definitely export the text and pass it along to someone willing to proofread it. (I'm willing, though (a) if you want someone who's finished the hold, you'll have to wait a little bit, and (b) my schedule for the next two weeks is a little crazy anyway. But if you're not submitting it until the beginning of July, then hey, I'm your man, perhaps.)

EDIT: oh, OK, so CSR pointed out to me that the text is actually attached above. I haven't slept since...anyway, I've got a really long flight ahead of me this evening, so assuming I don't spend it all sleeping, I can try to go through the text and proof it--but no promises, yet.

---

[Last edited by Tahnan at 06-03-2009 12:50 PM]

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
Finally made it out of the forest, which I mention mostly because I keep hitting the occasional typo, misspelling, or nonstandard usage (as I suspect you know), e.g. "choise" in one of the tunnel entrances. Definitely export the text and pass it along to someone willing to proofread it. (I'm willing, though (a) if you want someone who's finished the hold, you'll have to wait a little bit, and (b) my schedule for the next two weeks is a little crazy anyway. But if you're not submitting it until the beginning of July, then hey, I'm your man, perhaps.)

EDIT: oh, OK, so CSR pointed out to me that the text is actually attached above. I haven't slept since...anyway, I've got a really long flight ahead of me this evening, so assuming I don't spend it all sleeping, I can try to go through the text and proof it--but no promises, yet.

It would be awesome if you could... please?

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

File: GJL corrections.doc (61 KB)
Downloaded 58 times.
License: Public Domain

All right, hopefully this Word file will be (a) openable and (b) comprehensible. With luck I caught everything, but in any case I marked whatever I found.

If y'all can't read this, let me know and I'll see if I can get it into something text-friendlier.

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

I see that Zch went ahead and submitted this hold anyway. However, there are still issues mentioned in this thread that neither Zch nor Kallor has addressed.

* Some unintended solutions in Indoors, and connected levels.

* Possible scripting error causing the door to Goblin Woods 6N1E to be open and closed at the wrong times.

* A question whether Underground Lake 2S2E will still work with the new bomb behavior that will be introduced in the next patch to DROD:TCB.

* Typos throughout the hold. Hopefully, Tahnan is working on this, as he is a terrific writer. Yay! He posted while I was typing this post. (Unfortunately, it's not possible to edit the xml file and import it back into the hold. I tried the other day with a small test hold, and it wouldn't overwrite the existing text.)

And no, I don't have a tool that checks staircase destinations. These must be checked manually by clicking on each staircase in the editor. Unfortunately the "show errors" feature in the editor does not actually show errors. If you move a level entrance, then the destination of any stairs connected to that level entrance becomes unset. If the player uses the stairs, they will end the hold, but they will not be colored orange in the editor.

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
All right, hopefully this Word file will be (a) openable and (b) comprehensible. With luck I caught everything, but in any case I marked whatever I found.

If y'all can't read this, let me know and I'll see if I can get it into something text-friendlier.

Thank you so much. Openoffice opened that file just fine. I've made the changes to the texts and will upload new version soon.

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I see that Zch went ahead and submitted this hold anyway. However, there are still issues mentioned in this thread that neither Zch nor Kallor has addressed.

* Some unintended solutions in Indoors, and connected levels.

Hmm... I fixed one US in Rorrim Rorrim 2N1W and changed Indoors3N3W slightly so that the oremite is a bit more visible.

Rheb found an US in Indoors1N4W, but, I think that the intended solution is easier and both solutions are nice and puzzley, so I promote the Unintended Solution to Alternative Intended Solution

* Possible scripting error causing the door to Goblin Woods 6N1E to be open and closed at the wrong times.

Oops. Somehow I totally forgot this one. At first I was sure that there is no way this bug could not be in our scripts, but it was. I really should know better...

Anyway, it is now fixed.

* A question whether Underground Lake 2S2E will still work with the new bomb behavior that will be introduced in the next patch to DROD:TCB.

We thought about this some time ago, and came to conclusion that this room should be solvable with the new behavior. I don't remember how we came to that conclusion... maybe Kallor remembers better?

* Typos throughout the hold. Hopefully, Tahnan is working on this, as he is a terrific writer. Yay! He posted while I was typing this post. (Unfortunately, it's not possible to edit the xml file and import it back into the hold. I tried the other day with a small test hold, and it wouldn't overwrite the existing text.)

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

I took a look at the new version.

Goblin Woods 6N seems to work correctly now.
Indoors 2N4W can now be done in "regular" or "decaf" mode.
The oremite is indeed easier to see in Indoors 3N3W.
Now I need the snake in Rorrim Rorrim 2N1W.
The text looks much better.

I talked to Tahnan in the in-game chat, and he did finish Underground Lake 2S2E using the beta patch with the new bomb behavior, so we can cross this one off the worry list for good.

Are you sure folks are using the correct solutions to Indoors 3N4E, Indoors 3N5E, and Four Times as Fun 3N2W?

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I took a look at the new version.

Goblin Woods 6N seems to work correctly now.
Indoors 2N4W can now be done in "regular" or "decaf" mode.
The oremite is indeed easier to see in Indoors 3N3W.
Now I need the snake in Rorrim Rorrim 2N1W.
The text looks much better.

I talked to Tahnan in the in-game chat, and he did finish Underground Lake 2S2E using the beta patch with the new bomb behavior, so we can cross this one off the worry list for good.

Thats good. Thinking can fail, but if it has been tested by playing then it is sure.

Are you sure folks are using the correct solutions to Indoors 3N4E, Indoors 3N5E, and Four Times as Fun 3N2W?

hmm...
I checked those rooms and I'm pretty sure they are not broken.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

By the way, a proofreading error that exporting the text couldn't catch: no apostrophe in Indoors: 3N3W.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3659
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Alright! I've finally conquered the hold, and viewed the ending cinematic, which I found to be short, but I suppose somewhat appropriate. Mastering this hold, the next logical goal, is going to be quite challenging; I've got a few stragglers left, but most of my work will be done on the Underground Lake level.

Overall, I think the last tier of puzzles in the Indoors level, while having many themes, had some very interesting and challenging ideas, but also some rather easy rooms which I felt were of lower quality, but weren't too distracting.

The Robolab rooms especially are going to be tough to complete or optimize. Indoors 2N5E in particular is just a really tough room.

Well done Zch and Kallor! This hold is definitely a great sequel to Dr. E Will's Mega Complex in the DROD 3.0 engine.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

---

[Last edited by Chaco at 07-10-2009 01:19 AM]

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
By the way, a proofreading error that exporting the text couldn't catch: no apostrophe in Indoors: 3N3W.

Sorry it took a while to reply this. Are you sure about this?
I mean if I take the apostrophe away would it not mean "(many) slayers". It is supposed to mean "slayer's (place)". As in reply to question
- where are you?
- I'm at slayer's

I'm not sure though...

If the thing I tried to do is totally wrong then I think it should be "slayer" without "'s" as there is only one slayer...

Sigh. English is difficult...

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

Zch wrote:

Tahnan wrote:
By the way, a proofreading error that exporting the text couldn't catch: no apostrophe in Indoors: 3N3W.

Sorry it took a while to reply this. Are you sure about this?
I mean if I take the apostrophe away would it not mean "(many) slayers". It is supposed to mean "slayer's (place)". As in reply to question
- where are you?
- I'm at slayer's

I'm not sure though...

If the thing I tried to do is totally wrong then I think it should be "slayer" without "'s" as there is only one slayer...

Sigh. English is difficult...

Oh, I see. It's very rare to have a possessive in English without a following noun, except post-copula ("That is Zch's; where's mine?"). The context you give is one of those rare cases. Without the "where are you?", though, I didn't even think to read it that way. (I wouldn't expect a sign outside John Smith's home to read "Smith's". Actually, in fact, it strikes me that that's most common in restaurant names: McDonald's, Denny's...anyway.)

If there's room to change it to "Slayer's Place", you might want to. Then again, it's such a minor detail that if you're on the verge of getting it promoted to Holds, don't delay it on that account.

Zch
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:

Zch wrote:

Tahnan wrote:
By the way, a proofreading error that exporting the text couldn't catch: no apostrophe in Indoors: 3N3W.

Sorry it took a while to reply this. Are you sure about this?
I mean if I take the apostrophe away would it not mean "(many) slayers". It is supposed to mean "slayer's (place)". As in reply to question
- where are you?
- I'm at slayer's

I'm not sure though...

If the thing I tried to do is totally wrong then I think it should be "slayer" without "'s" as there is only one slayer...

Sigh. English is difficult...

Oh, I see. It's very rare to have a possessive in English without a following noun, except post-copula ("That is Zch's; where's mine?"). The context you give is one of those rare cases. Without the "where are you?", though, I didn't even think to read it that way. (I wouldn't expect a sign outside John Smith's home to read "Smith's". Actually, in fact, it strikes me that that's most common in restaurant names: McDonald's, Denny's...anyway.)

If there's room to change it to "Slayer's Place", you might want to. Then again, it's such a minor detail that if you're on the verge of getting it promoted to Holds, don't delay it on that account.

Well, there would be room to change it to 'Slayer's place', but
it would not look as nice, so I think it will stay the way it is.