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Kwakstur
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icon Re: Mafia Terce (0)  
I agree. Just too weird.

Vote: Chaco

And I thought the doctor was dead! Now we have a witch doctor?!

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02-14-2009 at 03:09 PM
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Kwakstur
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No, wait... this is too suspicious.

Unvote: Chaco

Dex must have lied about being the Hider. Why is he so eager to vote this new innocent townie?

Vote: Dex Stewart

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02-14-2009 at 03:13 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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icon Re: Mafia Terce (0)  
Stigant(0)
Chaco(1)-Dex Stewart
Dex Stewart(2)-Kwakstur
TripleM(0)
Snacko(0)
Kwakstur(0)

With 6 alive, (4) votes to lynch.

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02-14-2009 at 03:32 PM
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Dex Stewart
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quote:
Kwakstur wrote:
Why is he so eager to vote this new innocent townie?
Vote: Dex Stewart


Simple. I am convinced that he, in fact, is *not* an innocent townie. Either the information from Z is true, which means that he is a Mafia traitor, what I doubt, because Chaco lied in that case, by stating that he was the Mint Townie, or the information from Z is not true, in which case I again doubt that Chaco is a normal townie because I find it unlikely that a normal townie would be saved from a lynch.
02-14-2009 at 03:46 PM
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TripleM
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I tend to agree with Dex on this one.

What possible use would a Mafia traitor goon have? A goon doesn't have the last say on who to vote for at night, and what they say during the day isn't really affected.

If Chaco really is a traitor, he would have said straight away who the mafia are. Unless he isn't allowed to until he has been 'lynched', which is also stupid as then the game would end instantly on Chaco's lynch + who-are-the-mafia statement, and takes the entire strategy out altogether. Z wouldn't have made the rules that stupid (or would he..)

Vote: Chaco
02-14-2009 at 11:43 PM
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stigant
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quote:
I again doubt that Chaco is a normal townie because I find it unlikely that a normal townie would be saved from a lynch.

Why? We know that the each of the various flavors of townies have some sort of powers. Avoiding a lynch would actually be a useful power for a townie to have since the town would then find out that he was a townie and lynch someone else.

quote:
What possible use would a Mafia traitor goon have? A goon doesn't have the last say on who to vote for at night, and what they say during the day isn't really affected.

If Chaco really is a traitor, he would have said straight away who the mafia are. Unless he isn't allowed to until he has been 'lynched', which is also stupid as then the game would end instantly on Chaco's lynch + who-are-the-mafia statement, and takes the entire strategy out altogether. Z wouldn't have made the rules that stupid (or would he..)

Exactly, which is why we should wait for Chaco to post again in case he CAN spill the beans or at least explain why he can't. I think it's a bit much to think that Z is lying about Chaco's role, and if he is, then it's probably too late for the town to win anyway. Z may not be telling the whole truth, but if he's outright lying then he'll never get to play another game of mafia on this board again. All of which makes me a bit suspicious about you two wanting to lynch Chaco again right away. At any rate, we can always lynch him tomorrow anyway.

So I just had a thought: What if Kwakstur and Snacko are the mafia? Snacko is the Godfather, and Kwakstur, the low level goon, was scared of him at the beginning (hence the speech impediment). He's been protecting Snacko this whole time, and we have yet to hear from Snacko directly because he's letting his henchman do all the talking.

Another possibility is that TripleM and Dex are the mafia. But I find it hard to believe that Dex has successfully gotten away with claiming to be the hider this whole time, and I'm still not sold on TripleM because of what happened to SomeoneElse earlier today.

So:
Vote: Kwakstur
I don't think it matters which of the mafia we take out in this case since the cops don't seem to be forthcoming with any info. But I'm open to voting for Snacko first instead if someone can elucidate a compelling argument why it matters.

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02-15-2009 at 12:19 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm not a bastard mod. I don't lie, and I'm playing by my notes and the role PM's to the T. And if you have a grievance, please don't hesitate to PM me. I can't read the mind of whoever has been modding down my updates. Thanks... :|

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02-15-2009 at 12:32 AM
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TripleM
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I don't know who modded down your message about Chaco not dying - that wasn't me, as I'm already used to (though not particularly happy about) the major unknownness of the rules.

I did, however, mod down your last post twice, for the fact that getting involved in the player's conversations as a mod is completely stupid. I was bringing up a point for discussion, and you come in the game and totally ruin it by saying that Chaco wasn't/isn't allowed to talk about it.

(And this is in no way saying anything about my role or whether z's post affected any strategy game-wise).
02-15-2009 at 01:06 AM
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TripleM
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quote:
stigant wrote:
Exactly, which is why we should wait for Chaco to post again in case he CAN spill the beans or at least explain why he can't.



True. It's going to be hard to decide if Chaco is telling the truth or not, but we'll see.

Unvote: Chaco
02-15-2009 at 02:45 AM
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Kwakstur
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I beleive that Zed is saying that now that we know that Chaco is good and knows who the executioner is, he may no longer post in the thread or even PM anyone. If he was able to speak to the townies (who now should trust him), the game would be broken and not even worth playing. Chaco may not say anything to anyone now.

This leaves us with 5 voting members (if he could silently vote via PM, he could use that vote to communicate the mafia members to us, unless his vote were not to be reflected in the public vote count).
I think a majority should now be 3 votes, but oh well.

Neither the town nor mafia will benefit from killing him. He's a ghost.

But I'm going to have to respond to this:
quote:
stigant wrote:
Snacko is the Godfather, and Kwakstur, the low level goon, was scared of him at the beginning (hence the speech impediment).
Not even close. And why would I be afraid of him if I were the goon? Think about this.
quote:
He's been protecting Snacko this whole time,

Absolutely untrue. I'm just saying that the cop - whom I know - inspected him on day 1. And I felt urged to say this for him, because he may not say it himself.
quote:
and we have yet to hear from Snacko directly because he's letting his henchman do all the talking.

What? I'm sorry, I just don't even know what to say to this. If I were in the mafia, that wouldn't exactly be my choice of plan.
quote:
I don't think it matters which of the mafia we take out in this case since the cops don't seem to be forthcoming with any info.
He did! And if you don't want to believe that, then fine, vote for Snacko. I assure you we will lose, because there are two mafia members to 4 townies, and killing a townie will bring the numbers down to 2v2, which I think is an automatic lose thanks to the hider.

Here. I'll start us off.

Unvote: Dex Stewart
Vote: Snacko


You don't want to follow my lead.

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02-15-2009 at 04:38 AM
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TripleM
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Great.
Chaco
Had a 100% useless role where nothing he did could ever be useful at all until now when he is not allowed to speak.

Kwakstur
Appeared innocent early on but is doing his best job to make himself look guilty by coming up with illogical arguments.

Stigant
Quoting Kwakstur in his one bit of common sense, appears overly helpful.

Snacko
Despite not posting at all in the game thread, must be participating in the game since he has been posting regularly in the Forum Games threads. It would be a bit of a letdown to be given a role which involves a total lack of participation, so the role must be important, but is it Mafia or Townie?

Dex Stewart
Claimed to be the hider early on, and appears to give an auto-vote to the player he hides behind.

Of all of those.. I believe Dex is the hider, and everyone else is Mafia. O:-

Why does everyone have to make themselves look so suspicious? geesh.
02-15-2009 at 04:52 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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icon Re: Mafia Terce (-2)  
I'm just clarifying that Chaco can post, just not reveal any role-based information.

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02-15-2009 at 12:42 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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icon Re: Mafia Terce (+1)  
I don't appreciate whoever finds it amusing or appropriate to mod down some of my posts in this thread. As I said before, please PM me what you don't like, and I'll do my best to correct it. Thanks. :(

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02-15-2009 at 05:37 PM
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zex20913
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From an outsider's perspective, I think the mod downs are coming from the perceived notion that your hidden rules are destroying the game, and the fun that they could have with it. Dead is dead unless the doctor (who should NOT be insane) prevents it. You've broken that rule twice, and any justifications you make are seen as stubbornness and ineptitude at being a mod for the game.

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02-15-2009 at 06:59 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Sigh. If you would all like, I'll start the game over with normal roles and resend the role PMs. I got a PM from the person modding me down, a certain deadman, and apparently he was modding down random posts in this game and excused himself by saying "losing rankpoints is fun!" I don't know whether to call this spammery or poking fun, but I definitely don't appreciate it. Anyway, if you'd like me to start over and show all of you the roles that were making things go crazy I'll do so with pleasure. Just post here if you'd like to play again. Thanks. :)

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02-15-2009 at 07:33 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Oops. Sorry I flubbed up. Deadman didn't mod me down, he was just poking fun at what happened. Sorry!


...But I still don't know who did...

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02-15-2009 at 07:37 PM
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Kwakstur
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Aww, right when it was getting epic!

I'd say just ignore the mod-downs.

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02-15-2009 at 09:35 PM
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TripleM
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I have modded both the previous two -2s. It appears someone else is modding you down as well, as I arrived this morning to find you complaining about a mod down, and that wasn't me, like it wasn't me who modded down your post about Chaco not dying. Someone else must be upset with the game in general, which is completely silly.

I've already told you why in my last post. I'm fine with the unusual roles, but if one of your rules is that you, as mod, are allowed to get involved in the towns conversations and give hints and things towards what people can and can't do, then I will suicide. A mod is not meant to get involved in the game.

I thought I made this clear with my last post.. so I'm sorry you were still confused.

(I'm not alone, stigant said the same thing last game: http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=27778&page=3#271474)

[edit]Oh.. sorry. I see that someone has modded other posts of yours in this thread. That wasn't me. I only modded down the two posts where you gave out information about Chaco when you really didn't need to.

[Last edited by TripleM at 02-16-2009 12:17 AM]
02-16-2009 at 12:12 AM
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stigant
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quote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Please, whoever is modding me down, tell me what's wrong. I've already suspended the game, and am willing to start it over with basic roles. Why are you modding every single one of my posts? -_-

While I think it's childish to (continue) modding you down, you are clearly making things worse by complaining about it. Just ignore it.

quote:
Sigh. If you would all like, I'll start the game over with normal roles and resend the role PMs

Ugh, can we just finish this one? I, for one, don't think things are unsalvagable. It hasn't been terrible since we voted you out, and your role didn't have that much of an effect on the game since it ended so early. I don't think Chaco's role, as revealed is terrible. He certainly could have any number of subtle effects on the game before he was revealed. You should have let him explain his limitations rather than posting yourself, but I don't think that really changes much since he CAN post, (although he doesn't seem to be at the moment for whatever reason).

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02-16-2009 at 12:13 AM
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Kwakstur
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I can't imagine why anybody would waste so many mod points on modding zed down. But it appears that the offender (or, from another sense, the offendee) has stopped for now; zwetschenwasser's rank points have been at a stable 71 for the last hour.

The person mostly modded down Votecounts, but there are exceptions. I see no real logic to which posts were modded down other than them being in this topic; (s)he just modded seemingly random posts. The person is clearly trying to send him a message about this game, but not through the best method. How can one learn from his own mistakes if he doesn't know what they are in the first place?

Unless it's just a troll, I would hope that by now the person has PMed Zed about it. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'd really like for the game to continue, though.

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02-16-2009 at 02:28 AM
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Kwakstur
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Wow, I can't believe I didn't catch this:

For those who never check the Anything board, here is why Chaco is so silent right now.

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02-16-2009 at 03:32 AM
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TripleM
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Yeah.. but he said he'd still be connecting to play Mafia.

Though it seems like that isn't happening. In the meantime.. Dex, as the one person (other than Snacko, who doesn't seem to count) who hasn't said anything this round, who do you think?

Kwakstur seems so obvious.. is there a role where you'd want to be lynched?
02-16-2009 at 09:20 AM
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Dex Stewart
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I have said everything I had to say this round. Basically, Chaco looks very suspicious and I'm voting for him (again, after some weird power made him survived the vote). Either he is bad or he is good, and unless a normal townie was given the ability to survive a vote, then he is bad. See what I said earlier.
02-16-2009 at 09:36 AM
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TripleM
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Whoops, I missed that sorry.

If I'm correct, the current vote count is:

Stigant(0)
Chaco(1)-Dex Stewart
Dex Stewart(1)-(anonymous)
TripleM(0)
Snacko(1)-Kwakstur
Kwakstur(1)-Stigant

with myself, Snacko, and Chaco still to vote, and them voting doesn't sound too likely at this stage.

Which I'm now confused about. I thought we had guessed the anonymous vote was who you hid behind. But you have the anonymous vote. Did you do something unusual last night, or did we have that wrong after all? Perhaps Snacko is the anonymous voter?
02-16-2009 at 10:23 AM
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Dex Stewart
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I was never that sure that I was the one controlling the anonymous vote. It is however possible that I did, in which case I probably got the vote myself because I hid behind lopsidation, who was killed. I also hid behind lopsidation in the first night, and he was indeed the one who got an anonymous vote. It should also be noted that Z phrased his PM to me in a way which clearly stated that the mafia targeted lopsidation and not me.

Which actually brings back the question: who should I hide behind tonight? Kwakstur?
02-16-2009 at 12:43 PM
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Dex Stewart
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Just to be clear: No, I did nothing unusual last night.
02-16-2009 at 12:43 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Yay! I put the last post on Chaco because I needed to clarify that he could post, and I found it necessary. Thanks! Carry on... :D

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02-16-2009 at 02:04 PM
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Chaco
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Hi everyone - Sorry I haven't gotten to post recently; it's been tricky making the trip to Florida and now that I'm here I've already managed to contract a cold.

Anyhow, I've read over the entire thread and looked at all of your viewpoints, and I admit this whole "Mafia Traitor" role could perhaps have been explained a bit better, with the assistance of hindsight.

I admit lying about being a Mint Townie - it was a complete bluff and at the time I thought I could get someone else lynched, but it made me more suspicious, because I revealed my "role" only when I was about to get lynched. Again, assistance of hindsight makes me see this as a stupid move.

Anyway, now that you guys know that I'm the Mafia Traitor, you are obviously now awaiting what it is I have to say: spilling the beans and all that. I'm working for the Town side and want to eliminate all Mafia-aligned entities, so now that I've been revealed I will actually work to that end. (But I've been trying to pin the blame on the Mafia all along.)

EDIT:

Re-reading the thread, I note some speculation on my method of "revival". I'd like to say that I completely disagree with the way zwetschenwasser handled it - I was under the impression that once the required number of votes occurred, it would come to light that I was the Mafia traitor, not after I was lynched, and had to be brought back with zwetschenwasser's "black magic" stuff that just points more blame in my direction.

As it were, I only had the ability to avoid one lynch myself, and this was much more clearly defined when I was given the role. Cripes, "black magic". What were you thinking, zwetschenwasser? I'm definitely going to go play in Dex's game when that arrives.

END EDIT

Anyhow, today I'm spilling the beans on TripleM. He was the only Mafia member I was in communication with, but he regularly asked me for advice on what people to kill, and many (but not all) of the people who were, in fact, killed, were my suggestions, suggesting that TripleM is the Mafia Executioner. At any rate, I obviously didn't reveal my special ability to TripleM, even when he asked for it. (His was, of course, that "immediately lynch someone with half the required votes" power.)

So yweah, I'm accusing TripleM of being Mafia, and I hope other people follow me. Hopefully the fact that he will come up as Mafia-aligned when we lynch him will vindicate me, and also hopefully there aren't any other Mafia-aligned people that I don't know about.

Vote: TripleM

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[Last edited by Chaco at 02-16-2009 02:53 PM : added edit block - clarifying stuff]
02-16-2009 at 02:46 PM
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Dex Stewart
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Why did you then not say you were a Mafia Traitor, instead claiming you were a Mint Townie? Either we would have believed you immediately, and we would have killed TripleM, or we would have believed you only after knowing your identity. I am willing to change my vote, but you need to answer that question (at least).
02-16-2009 at 03:33 PM
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stigant
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More to the point, Chaco, is that EVERYTHING you know? Cuz I'm pretty sure you're going to die tonight. After you confirm that, I will vote for TripleM.

Unvote: Kwakstur

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