Jeff_Ray...
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Well, not quite, but I guess that's fine.

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Blondbeard
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Just letting you know that next update is anticipated. No preasure though. Take the time that you need

Jeff_Ray...
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The long-awaited part 7 is now published! I fully tested, and it is possible to reach at least the Bad Ending. I didn't manage to reach the other endings (the best one being unfinished anyhow), but I'm working on it.

Also, most clones have been removed. If the remaining ones still bother you, I'll take them out.

My score for the Bad Ending:



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Chaco
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File: testofmindnotes.txt (4.8 KB)
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I can reach the good ending no problem.

I did a complete playthrough of the hold again from start to finish. Here's my notes: * denotes a note from me that's either a comment on what I think or what I did, and ! is something that I recommend you change.

You are almost done with the main structure of the hold, but I think you still need to work on the last bit. I'd recommend in the next update you finish Part VIII and fix most of the stuff I've outlined in my notes here. Hopefully this should fit under the "precious comments" you've given me credit for

Oh, and two last things. Would you mind titling the second inventory level (the one used for Part 8) something like Inventory Part 8 so it shows up distinctly in the editor screen? At the moment it looks like you have two inventory levels that are duplicated, and that's just no good. Making the actual inventory room look different (with a different style and/or layout) would be a good idea also, to remind the player that they have a wiped inventory that they have to rebuild.

What are you going to be doing with the Part I Revamp level? I liked Part I - Seaside Estate as an opening level, but if you're planning on redoing it so it's better I'd be glad to run through it once it's complete. You'll need to keep in mind what statistics one should start Part II with, though - and I could help with that and give you the statistics I started Part II with coming from the current Part I.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 01-19-2009 02:55 PM]

Nuntar
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I don't like the way the altar progression works. Since the cost doubles, you can use it very few times compared to Tendry's Tale. Combine that with the fact that the later altars are only slightly better than the earlier ones (+7 ATK becomes +8 then +9) and I really doubt it's a good idea to save yourself for the later ones at all.

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Blondbeard
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Nuntar wrote:
I don't like the way the altar progression works. Since the cost doubles, you can use it very few times compared to Tendry's Tale. Combine that with the fact that the later altars are only slightly better than the earlier ones (+7 ATK becomes +8 then +9) and I really doubt it's a good idea to save yourself for the later ones at all.

I agree. As I think I have stated previously.

Nuntar
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Slayer defeated!

HP 1770, ATK 652, DEF 275, keys 13/14/0/0. I had enough GR for the next (25600) altar boost but couldn't be bothered to go back and get it.

I know I did some things in a rather unorthodox way, but that's one thing I like about this hold -- the way it encourages you to look for different ways of doing things. I beat the Crows right at the beginning of Part III, though I don't know whether that's optimal. I never found a grappling hook, though there are some pretty strong clues that there is one somewhere. I used the Portable Orb in Part VI: 1N to access the rooms in the wrong order. (Part VI was tricky until I realised the secret is just to do whatever it takes to reach 290 ATK to one-shot Pirates and after that you're fine.) I used Wall Walking in Part VII: 2S3W to avoid opening the door releasing the Aumtlich beam. I think that was also the wrong order, because when I reached 3S2W I just opened the red door and didn't have to use any green keys. I never got a Really Big Sword (or a Wyrm Smiter), so I was glad to find the Hook, and I didn't have a problem with where it was placed.

Overall, a very enjoyable hold Look forward to seeing it complete.

Just a couple of criticisms. There are still some level entrances that say "Entrance 36" or the like. You need to turn off "Show entrance description" on all of these. To make sure you don't miss any, just place a staircase in a new room and it will list all the entrances in the hold.

I like the idea of two endings, a bad one and a good one for if you found more secrets, but I really don't approve of it being described as a "bad ending" within the hold itself. That's like telling the player that not finding all the secrets is in some way a failure. Just call the score checkpoint "Finished the hold!" or something like that. It will be obvious enough that there's more to discover -- the game does tell you the percentage of secrets you found when you complete a hold.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 01-19-2009 07:51 PM]

Chaco
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Nuntar wrote:
Slayer defeated!

HP 1770, ATK 652, DEF 275, keys 13/14/0/0. I had enough GR for the next (25600) altar boost but couldn't be bothered to go back and get it.

I know I did some things in a rather unorthodox way, but that's one thing I like about this hold -- the way it encourages you to look for different ways of doing things.

I rather like that too - each room usually has several different ways to accomplish something, and it's interesting to keep track of ways that getting powerups in different orders work to your advantage. Early on spending keys instead of fighting monsters is a good bet, but later on conserving them is better and you might want to take a few hundred damage if you can just heal it later.

I beat the Crows right at the beginning of Part III, though I don't know whether that's optimal.

I don't know either which way is optimal, but in my runthrough by the time I beat the Crows in Part 3 I had enough DEF to not even take any damage from Weaklings or Rock Golems (> 100 DEF)

I never found a grappling hook, though there are some pretty strong clues that there is one somewhere. I used the Portable Orb in Part VI: 1N to access the rooms in the wrong order.

There are pretty strong clues that a Grappling Hook exists because one does, indeed, exist in Part 6 (Chumpfreeze Fridge) - you need a Portable Orb to get to it, though.

The Really Big Sword is behind the Serpent nearby, and requires the Grappling Hook to get to. Figuring out when the proper point to kill the Serpent is will be an interesting problem, but I killed him for just over 8000 damage. Once you have the Sword the endgame becomes a lot easier, since Adders aren't as much of a problem and most everything else only hits the player once or twice.

Anyhow, I admit I was spending a while looking for an Oremite Shield at the end of part 7 before I remembered that there was a Knight Shield in part 7 already and I already had a ludicrous amount of defense, so there was no real reason for it to be there.

For the most part I focused on buying DEF from the altars, since I never had any problems meeting ATK requirements for high-DEF monsters and bosses and picking up ATK gems to lower the amount of hits it took me to kill something, whereas buying DEF allowed me to eventually outright not take damage from some of the earlier enemies (and even some of the ones in parts 4 through 6), which was very helpful in earning greckles, which led to more altar upgrades.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 01-19-2009 07:53 PM]

reyll3
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I completed it, and i have to say, it is pretty easy if you use the correct things for the correct places.
I mostly focussed on attack, and got to kill a lot of monsters without taking damage. though, you can skip a lot of places in the end , and for the Really Big Sword(The Serpent) i used the in the end i only had problems with adders dealing quite a lot of damage, and clones, but you don't have to pass any of them.
Remember, your sword is enabled when you cross water!

again, i enjoyed the hold. what i enjoy the most was the start of it, Part I and II.
also i liked this.


also, i had a load of keys at the end. i also liked the fact that in part VII

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Jeff_Ray...
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After a few months and 2 new projects, I decided to finish off this hold, and I can confirm that the Good Ending IS reachable. Stats:



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Nuntar
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I hope we will soon see this on Holds. I enjoyed playing it.

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Chaco
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File: tom_chaco.txt (3.3 KB)
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Here's my notes from this hold's playthrough. This is a pretty good hold, but I'd like to see it polished a bit more before HA submission.

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Jeff_Ray...
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Alright, one last update. If no one finds any big problems to this part, then I'll submit it to the HAs soon.

There are a few more secrets and changes.

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Jeff_Ray...
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Double post for a new update. See first post for details.

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Blondbeard
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Just wanted to say that I'm playing through the hold

Blondbeard
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I think chumpfreeze fridge is a place of possible highscore exploatation. If you use the pick axe you can pass sppokswielder, and come back to beat him up later. It's also chronologically strange. You can also obtain the normal ending, without ending the hold.

Jeff_Ray...
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Fixed...

Anything else before this gets shot to the HA skies?

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Blondbeard
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There are some aestetic flaws, like a guy remaining on 8,1 in Remote forest town 2N1E after you've completed the level, but that doesn't bug me very much. Do you want to correct such things? I will check if there are more gamplay issues also.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 09-13-2009 08:09 AM]

Jeff_Ray...
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Yeah, I noticed that flaw. I fixed it now.

EDIT: Uploaded too.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 09-13-2009 12:53 PM]

Blondbeard
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There are also some minor polishing issues. For example: I think some people might apreciate it if the man bragging about his briar fence reacted in some way if you started destroying his fence later on I don't know if you are interested in comments like that, though...

Jeff_Ray...
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Nope, I don't mind making those little changes.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 09-13-2009 04:50 PM]

TFMurphy
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There's still a number of things that concern me about this hold, as well as a few details that could do with polishing.




I really think it would be a good idea if you got yourself some paper or opened a text file, and just played through your hold from start to finish, and note down anything you see that you might want to polish or fix. Beta-testers can highlight some of the things they see, of course, but we're not you, and we can only guess what you were intending when you built some of these rooms.

Jeff_Ray...
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I'm not sure how you can end the hold immediately with the Pickaxe... using it by the stairs and going on the square simply leads me to Level 5 again.

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CuriousShyRabbit
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Jeff, don't forget to test and upload the new version where you fixed the infinite-looping inventory script.