apethedog
Level: Goblin
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They're all asleep, meaning you can use them to your advantage (as walls, basically), until you hit one of them with your sword, after which they all wake up and charge you. Perhaps they use the roach-algorithm. Maybe another kind.

Strategic possibilities with this include:
* walls you can't touch with your sword
* having to devise the perfect time to wake the monsters up, so as to have them, for example, block a snake
* lots more, I'm sure.

They could be insects, they could also be statues or gargoyles. The insect thing is inspired by how they'll all simultaneously wake up when you hit one of them. The gargoyle/statue thing on how they act as walls. Eh... they could also be three-headed yellow martians, I guess (though that wouldn't particularily fit into the setting). Anything. I just wanted to share this idea and hope it can inspire someone.

Chaco
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You can do that with scripting.

Sorry, I had to say it. It'd be a bit more complicated if there were other monsters in the room, of course, but anyway.

What if there were three of these monsters, and a fourth one inside an arrow maze? You'd have to figure out which spot you'd want to start at in addition to leading the monster in the maze out.

It's an intriguing idea, but I'm worried about how many puzzles you'd be able to make with it.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-01-2006 12:37 AM]

Jatopian
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I'm fairly sure this is doable with scripting, especially the "they all wake up and charge you" (turn into monster). I think there's a 'on being hit by sword' command of some sort, and if not, we've got ourselves a TCB suggestion there.

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Chaco
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No there isn't - there's only Wait While NPC At. Dying stops the script.

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Jatopian
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Chaco wrote:
No there isn't - there's only Wait While NPC At. Dying stops the script.

Hmm. Then how would you do it? I can only think of coding for all the possible orientations of Beethro stabbing each hive member, which is ridiculously complex to script.

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Chaco
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Well, if there aren't any other monsters in the room, you just do a simple Wait for event Monster Stabbed. Otherwise, you need to do a loop like so:

Label BigLoop
If... go to "Be a monster"
Wait while NPC is at (first Hive monster location)
If... go to "Be a monster"
Wait while NPC is at (second Hive monster location)
...and so on...
Wait 1 Turn
Go To Big Loop

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zex20913
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There are quite a few squares in the DROD environs. I don't want to have to code that 300 times, for a room with 1/3 of these NPC monsters.

That said, I feel that this is able to be done with orb or bomb mazes, for the most part. There isn't the desired "attack!" phase, but the idea is already the same.

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Chaco
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Note I said "you can do it with scripting" - not "you can do it easily with scripting".

However, most puzzles using this would probably only have two to ten of these, where the big loop wouldn't be quite so big, but would still be formidable.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-01-2006 03:41 AM]

AtkinsSJ
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Well, I think it's a good idea, anyway.

apethedog
Level: Goblin
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I didn't know about the scripting. I haven't begun making any holds of my own yet. I still haven't finished my journey into the rooted one yet (it has been many, many years ago since I finished DROD. I actually finished it in its original webfoot version. I only recently aquired DROD:JtRH)

One thing that could be done with these monsters is set up a sequence where you have to kill a set of monsters swarming you - as is often done with roaches - but with the added tactical difficulty of having to select which monster you start with. Right now, the roaches always start swarming you from the first move you make into the room, and always in the same direction. With these monsters, you would have to select which way to tackle the pack from.

They could be represented by a insectoid egg when in their hibernating stage, and an insect-like, em... insect, when awake.

Anyway, this is just the result of me brainstorming about a monster. I'm not serious about having this added to the game. I think it's hard to come up with any good creature designs, as pretty much everything has already been done.

Tahnan
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I for one actually like it. The hell with "you can do it with scripting"--it'd be unpleasant for the architect and unpredictable for the player. And I think it does indeed have good horde-management potential.

zex20913
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I just thought of an addendum for this feature request. MULTIPLE hive-type enemies. That is, not only one "swarm when hit" per room, but many possible types. These could be color coordinated (and should) so the player knows which ones will wake.

Some puzzles I see with these elements (which must all be killed for a green wall to fall) include alcoves that break down, mazes that must be tackled in a certain order, and some timing puzzles that Doom and Larrymurk could contrive in order to make the rest of us go completely bald from tearing out the rest of our collective hair.

There should (IMO) be a maximum number of such enemies--10 or 15, say, because after that, the marginal puzzle enhancement (MPE) decreases very rapidly.

So yes, more work, and possible with scripting, but difficult to achieve and view. Also, a niche that is nonfilled in DROD.

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Niccus
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Something tells me this might just boil down to a character script like "Wait until event... NPC is stabbed" or even "Wait until NPC is stabbed at..." The rest should be doable with "Wait while NPC is..."

EDIT:

Actually, this is already doable, there's just a one-move delay... "Wait for Event... Monster Stabbed" does count in characters.

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[Last edited by Niccus at 09-02-2006 03:02 AM]

NiroZ
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well while your at it, why don't you add a 'trigger' monster, and only if that monster is activated does his hord become acivated, thus creating puzzles that have you trying to hollow out a group of monsters, untill you have no choice but to hit a trigger monster.