Beef Row
Level: Smiter
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File: TPH Good Will 3N2W Victory 2.demo (972 bytes)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Chaco wrote:
I'd like to encourage everybody to read michthro's list of errors. It's about halfway down the page and it's very informative.

Fix them as best you can and attach the new versions here if you haven't already.

And here's another.

The real key here is that you can shorten the rattler for a later kill, and still use it to block the roach near the bottom. Of course, the other roach is also vulnerable nearly from the start.

Notice you can shorten the rattler either before, or after, its in place, so you'll want to look at both possibilities.

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Ew.

Anyway, this was kinda interesting to fix. Here's my solution. (It's one room so you don't have to download the hold again.) See if you can break this one - I think I may have made the enforcing of no killing a bit too complex/ugly.

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Beef Row
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Chaco wrote:
Ew.

Anyway, this was kinda interesting to fix. Here's my solution. (It's one room so you don't have to download the hold again.) See if you can break this one - I think I may have made the enforcing of no killing a bit too complex/ugly.

Well, I couldn't clear it, but I can kill the first roach and injure the rattlesnake: As soon as the snake turns into the trapdoor corridor, I can move down twice, 1 less roach and an injured snake. The bomb is timed too tight to kill anything else though.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Chaco
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Gargh, fine. I have one more trick to employ to fix that.

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Tuttle
Level: Smitemaster

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File: The Race.hold (15 KB)
Downloaded 57 times.
License: Public Domain

michthro wrote:
Tuttle, it's still not necessary to step on the SW fuse in 1N.

Doh, now I get what you're referring to. I'd been reading that as SE all the time...

Fixed, thanks.

Beef Row
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File: And Again.demo (924 bytes)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

Chaco wrote:
Gargh, fine. I have one more trick to employ to fix that.

I swear I'm not trying to drive you insane, but 2 more ways....

1. Once you move all the way to the top of the newly force arrowed corridor, you can step back down to kill the roach, then proceed as usual. (Adding 1 more force arrow on top will fix this).

2. Hard to explain, just watch the demo...

This is really a tough room to protect, although making the yellow door into the snakes room a single long door instead of a pair would fix #2. But maybe not all possible variations on it. Else if you could find a way to not depend on the mimic, that option wouldn't even exist.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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File: Beethro the Pacifist.hold (8.4 KB)
Downloaded 58 times.
License: Public Domain

Hold updated. (Old attachment removed.)

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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One more try - another force arrow and a cleverly placed trapdoor fix that.

(I also fixed the additional problem of simply killing the rattlesnake with the mimic directly.)

Anything else? Gah. This is much more complicated than I thought.

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Beef Row
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Chaco wrote:
One more try - another force arrow and a cleverly placed trapdoor fix that.

Looks locked up tight to me! Well done

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michthro
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File: TPH 3N2W The Room The Entrance.demo (839 bytes)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

Um, I'm sorry, Chaco, but you can kill the roach. Demo attached.

michthro
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File: HoP The Level 1N Victory.demo (1.2 KB)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

And Doom, 1N is conquerable.

Chaco
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File: TPH 3N2W.hold (1.7 KB)
Downloaded 58 times.
License: Public Domain

The new 1N or the old one where I could kill the roach?

Argh. Seriously. O_o

EDIT:

*sees michthro's demo* Aw, drat. The whole point of the room being



I'm not honestly sure how to fix this one... it's the sort of thing that might require a room rewrite. Beethro has too many degrees of freedom!

EDIT:

Fantastic idea! Using my almost encyclopedic knowledge of snake preferences, I have fixed this exploit by adding a quite expertly placed tunnel.

Now just try to break it. I'm not sitting down yet.

I'm also quite glad I made it one room to start fixing.

____________________________
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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-26-2006 02:41 PM]

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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File: TPH Good Will 2N2W.demo (859 bytes)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

Chaco wrote:
The new 1N or the old one where I could kill the roach?

The new one.

Now just try to break it. I'm not sitting down yet.

Awww, can't break it anymore. You win.
Now when are you going to fix 2N2W? (See attachment.)

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Uh, michthro? Your demo doesn't seem to work (or as intended) - you die by vicious roach attack at the end, which is what is supposed to happen when you harm a rattlesnake.

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michthro
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Chaco wrote:
Uh, michthro? Your demo doesn't seem to work (or as intended) - you die by vicious roach attack at the end, which is what is supposed to happen when you harm a rattlesnake.

Oh, not in the version I have, which is the only one I can find. Where is your latest version?

Chaco
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Well, I haven't made an Architecture update since the contest, but give me a bit to put the new 3N2W in there. Right now, the contest entry submission in the DtD poll is the most recent version, and in that version it's impossible to do the room if you even harm, let alone kill the rattlesnakes.

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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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File: DtD07jbluestein.hold (2.7 KB)
Downloaded 55 times.
License: Public Domain

OK, here's the updated hold...AGAIN.

I have rearranged 2S2E so that you can exit again, and you can't kill any brains even so.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Jason
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File: SI Smitus Interruptus Possiblekill 2S1E.demo (862 bytes)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

Possible kill. demo attached

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Play my holds?

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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I'd like to state that, once again, I'm not putting holds in that still have monster-killing bugs in them. There are several architects whose most recent hold versions still allow this, including but not limited to Dali, NiroZ, and Muiff.

If there are bugs in Michthro's list that haven't been fixed yet, please fix them and attach them in this thread so I know they work and can include them.

=====================

Also, in another front, the story for the Death to Death Compilation is coming along quite fine. Three out of the twelve rooms are done:

1. King Ryui explains that he is a king of the people.

2. He gets involved in his citizen's problems.

3. Occasionally he works as one of his citizens.

--Story Has Gotten This Far--

4. King Ryui meets with Gorby to set up the "work" for the day.

5. Ryui and Gorby go into dungeon, Gorby kills roach.

6. Gorby is killed.

And so on and so forth, including "architects try to let future Gorbies kill with mimics and guards" and "Doom gets another mug".

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-30-2006 01:19 AM]

tyrion
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 28
Registered: 02-26-2006
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File: Nuthouse.hold (10.2 KB)
Downloaded 57 times.
License: Public Domain

I think this fixes the problems in my entry. Not 100% sure about 2N1E, since there are hundreds of ways you can place the decoys, and I didn't check them all, but all the ways I dsicovered to kill mud babies in the old version no longer work.

Chaco
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Thanks tyrion.

Anyway, I'm still waiting on people. Current progress is that I'm working on the all-important roach scene. It's going well.

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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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File: DtD07jbluestein.hold (2.7 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Jason wrote:
Possible kill. demo attached

Thanks Jason -- just confirming my theory that this whole room was a bad idea. Anyway, attached is ANOTHER revision to the hold which I believe makes roach killing hazardous enough that you can't get away with it. No doubt someone will find a way, though.

Josh

____________________________
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Ostegolectr1c
Level: Master Delver
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File: Beneath Snoll.hold (15 KB)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's my fix (according to what michtro's bug list says). If you find any other bugs send me a message.
This post should also remind other people to fix their entries.


Sorry for the late reply.

____________________________
Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn't mean that I'm into Japanese schoolgirls!

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[Last edited by Ostegolectr1c at 12-19-2006 05:32 PM]

Chaco
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Hey, thanks for that. I'll put that into the compilation.

There are still a few people who haven't submitted fixes for their holds. I'm giving them the very reasonable deadline of December 31st to submit fixed versions of their holds - otherwise I'm going to forge ahead without said holds and eventually post the final version for review in this thread.

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Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

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File: Death to Death.hold (211.5 KB)
Downloaded 56 times.
License: Public Domain

okay, here's mine.