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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Ongoing hold
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Kamaz
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File: The Deeper Dungeons.hold (105.9 KB)
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icon Ongoing hold (0)  
Ok, here goes. I've been working on a hold, and I need a bit of feedback - and my family either doesn't play DROD or won't play my hold.
So far, there's only 6 levels, 7 if you include the second visit to the first level.
There's a story slowly forming, but I'm still working on the details - the general idea is, there's a dungeon under a lake, but bad weather (snowstorms, sandstorms and floods) prevent access. Only recently, the usual snowstorms aren't as strong as they usually are following the floods.
I've tested it myself, but I'm likly to miss stuff, so I'm after constructive criticism.

I know it's on me edit only, but I reckon, given time, anyone can do it.
EDIT: Credit to whoever made the Volcano style, since I've used it on the level B5F. If you don't have the Volcano for TCB style, you'll still be able to play it - it'll just use the City style. But I suggest getting the Volcano style.

File updated on 26/12/07

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[Last edited by Kamaz at 12-26-2007 08:11 PM]
12-24-2007 at 08:56 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (+1)  
I'm not going to give very detailed comments until I've gotten a bit further in the hold than the second level.

What I will say right away is that I don't enjoy rooms like Surface Entrance: Once North and B1F: Once South where you just have to drop a bunch of trapdoors, without any challenge. I'm okay with Surface Entrance Once South Once West, since there is another factor (not one that makes the room difficult though)

For passages of walls that you want Beethro to break as part of a puzzle or as part of finding another room, consider using crumbly walls instead of secret walls so it's easier to see the walls.

So far I'm seeing a lot of easy hack-and-slash rooms. This in itself isn't bad; but watch out that your quality doesn't suffer because of it.

These are just some general comments. I'll go into more detail later when I've played more of the hold. So far you're doing okay. Not brilliantly, mind, but not terribly either.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-24-2007 09:53 PM]
12-24-2007 at 09:53 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (+1)  
I've seen all the rooms in this hold now, and I think that Chaco's comments can be applied to the whole hold.

First I should say that I'm glad that this hold is actually completable. I haven't seen a lot of completable holds on this board lately.

I have a bit mixed feeling for this hold.

It's been properly tested, with only one or two spelling mistakes (sorry I haven't written them down), well scripted, nice looking rooms, and some of the rooms are actually really interesting.

On the other hand, there are many rooms where I walked through a very long boring maze to kill one monster at the end. There are also some rooms where you have to clear lots of boring tarstuff to drop a black door, or walk through a long trapdoor passage to drop a red door.

If you need more detailed comments, just tell me and I'll write them down later. (I'm quite busy during Xmas. :))

PS. By the way, unlike what you wrote in your hold, briars are not completely indestructable. For example, they can be blown up by bombs.

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12-24-2007 at 11:47 PM
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Kamaz
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (0)  
Ah, you found one of my secret rooms... I'll correct that little mistake later, and re-proofread my scrolls.
Most of the secret and Master rooms aren't actually supposed to be taken seriously, to be honest.

I'll see if I can't make some of those long walks a little more interesting... if I can come up with an idea to replace them.

I'm curious to hear thoughts on B2F Twice North and most of B5F actually, since I thought a lot of that I could have done better... besides the comments on Hack'n'Slash, I was expecting some criticism on that one.

Only other thing I'd like to hear about is the still small storyline... I know so far it's only in the level and hold descriptions, but when I get it finished I'l go back and probably add dialog and more.

Anyway, I'm off to go and see if I can give Chaco a little more of a challenge on those trapdoor rooms, hopefully without destroying too much of the original idea behind them.

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12-25-2007 at 11:28 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (+1)  
B2F Twice North (and its counterpart B2F Twice South) require no skill whatsoever. There's no lynchpin, and there's no horde that requires a good smiting - all you have to do is weave your way through the arrows, smash a secret wall (which, as a rule, I only use for hiding secret rooms, and even then I usually have a crumbly wall at the edge of said secret passages) and kill some monsters. Not too interesting of a room, but it's not hard and doesn't take that long either.

B5F is kind of a "meh" level. First of all, I really don't want to keep playing your hold if you continue making rooms like Thrice North or Twice North Twice West. I can't imagine you have fun playing those rooms, let alone the players, and I already know the editor has image pits.

B5F Once North Twice East is... a bad room. Not much else to say about it.

The rest of the level isn't too bad, but it could use some improvement. It wasn't too challenging to complete any room.

Even though you didn't ask for it, I also have commentary regarding B3F - it's too dark. Yes, it's a good story element to have the lights smashed out, but too dark and the player has to squint or change his settings to get rid of the darkness. The player can even make B3F Twice North Once East impossible by waiting for the characters to complete their actions, then leaving the room and re-entering. The characters are gone and all the doors are open, making it impossible to kill all the spiders (I believe)

So, I think you need to spend more time playing your rooms. I mean playing, not building. If they're not fun to play, and play again, then what makes you think I'll want to play the room even once?

Note: This hold has a lot of potential. With some work this could have much better quality :)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-26-2007 02:24 AM]
12-26-2007 at 02:23 AM
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Kamaz
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (0)  
Hold updated.
Nothing new as such, but some things have been taken out, a few things changed.
If nothing else, it should correct a few of the mistakes I seem to have made...

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12-26-2007 at 06:53 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (0)  
Kamaz wrote:
I don't know if you can access the level without the style, or what will happen if you try, but I suggest getting the Volcano style for TCB then playing through.

If the user doesn't have the Volcano style installed, all that happens is the level uses the City style instead. Not a problem.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
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12-26-2007 at 07:23 PM
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Kamaz
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icon Re: Ongoing hold (0)  
Thanks, I'll update the first post accordingly.

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12-26-2007 at 08:10 PM
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