jbluestein
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OK, I've scanned through the board and haven't seem anything like this, and it's been kicking around in my head for a little bit and seems like it might have interesting possibilities.

Simply put, a potion that causes Goblins to step up their attack. They will still follow some of the basic rules of Goblin movement, but it would be impossible to hold them off forever in a configuration like this:

WGG
W G
WB G
WWWWW

Legend:
W - Wall
B - Beethro
G - Goblin

As you know, with normal (or even brained) Goblins, the above is something of an impasse. The Goblins won't get close enough for you to hit them, but of course they won't get close enough to hit you either.

Something like this could be placed such that you could use it to your advantage (if they charge you down a 2-wide passage, you're OK), or severe disadvantage (you can get a few of them, but they'll get you eventually).

Opinions? Not sure if it does enough to make things interesting, especially since I can't think how it would affect non-Goblins. But I kind of like the idea...

Josh



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stigant
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Well, what exactly do you mean "Step up their attack"? How will the goblins move? In otherwords, describe the decision making algorithm in a bit more depth.

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jbluestein
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stigant wrote:
Well, what exactly do you mean "Step up their attack"? How will the goblins move? In otherwords, describe the decision making algorithm in a bit more depth.

Right now each individual Goblin makes its own decision about whether or not it can reach you before you hit it with your sword. If you can swing around in time to get it, it will hang back (usually).

If I have a configuration like I showed above (I'll redo it here because it looks like variable-width fonts are not a friend to mini-DRODigrams):

WGG
W..G
WB.G
WWWW

You're 'safe' with current Goblin movement rules. But my thought was that the Rage potion would just cause them to all go straight for you. Possibly acting similar to brained Roaches? No longer so concerned about individual survival.

I dunno...haven't fleshed it out much more than that.

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Chaco
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Use the <code> and </code> tags for that, like this:

W....
WG.G.
W./G.
WB..G
WWWWW

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stigant
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hmm, well, in that situation, aren't you pretty much screwed anyway? I mean you can't get to the goblins (at least, once you get down to 2 since they'll probably be on either side of you instead of together), and the goblins can't get to you. But in DROD, stalemate is no better than death to beethro. You still have to restart the room.

And anyway, if the goblins are going to start acting like brained roaches, that will most likely make the room easier. Why not just let the architect put a brain and roaches and possibly use invisibility potions to control when the behavior is on or off.

To be sure, this doens't exactly mimic the behavior you want, but it seems to provide the same sort of puzzles. The details will be slightly different, but the overall strategy of playing the room would be the same.

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[Last edited by stigant at 04-08-2006 01:55 AM]

Rabscuttle
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You're not necessarily stalemated - if there's only a couple of goblins you can charge out sword first and hopefully reach a spare wall to hide behind.

jbluestein
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stigant wrote:
hmm, well, in that situation, aren't you pretty much screwed anyway? I mean you can't get to the goblins (at least, once you get down to 2 since they'll probably be on either side of you instead of together), and the goblins can't get to you. But in DROD, stalemate is no better than death to beethro. You still have to restart the room.

Sure, in that situation. But I can envision some situations where a change in Goblin behavior makes the room a lot easier...and some where it becomes a lot harder as well.

And anyway, if the goblins are going to start acting like brained roaches, that will most likely make the room easier. Why not just let the architect put a brain and roaches and possibly use invisibility potions to control when the behavior is on or off.

To be sure, this doens't exactly mimic the behavior you want, but it seems to provide the same sort of puzzles. The details will be slightly different, but the overall strategy of playing the room would be the same.

Yeah, well...maybe the behavior isn't unique or interesting enough to merit its own feature. It seemed cool, but I can't come up with enough detail to distinguish it. Maybe someone with more skill than I will be inspired to come up with something from it...or not.

Thanks for the comments!

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jbluestein
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Rabscuttle wrote:
You're not necessarily stalemated - if there's only a couple of goblins you can charge out sword first and hopefully reach a spare wall to hide behind.

Ah, yes...as aptly demonstrated by rooms in some recently released holds. (There, hope that's vague enough to count as 'not a spoiler').

Josh

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b0rsuk
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Why is it called a potion ?

How about a Potion of Open Yellow Door ?
How about a Potion Which Prints Message When Drank ?
How about a Potion of Monster Spawning ?
How about a Potion of Drop All Trapdoors ?
How about a Holy Handgrenade Potion ?
How about a Potion of You Go To Work When I Drink It ?

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 04-12-2006 11:57 AM]

Krishh
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While I see your point, B0rsuk, the reason is probably that currently everything that creates a lasting effect in the room and/or affects the behaviour of something is a potion, except for brains, which are monsters. So from the unorignality perspective, if it affects goblin behaviour, it's either a potion or a goblinbrain. We need more types of canonical effect-creating items.

Syntax
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Krishh wrote:
While I see your point, B0rsuk, the reason is probably that currently everything that creates a lasting effect in the room and/or affects the behaviour of something is a potion, except for brains, which are monsters. So from the unorignality perspective, if it affects goblin behaviour, it's either a potion or a goblinbrain. We need more types of canonical effect-creating items.

Wow! No idea what that means, but it sounds good as hell!

[EDIT]

Needless to say, I agree!

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[Last edited by Syntax at 04-14-2006 08:47 AM]

silver
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Krishh wrote:
if it affects goblin behaviour, it's either a potion or a goblinbrain.

Hrm. We have a king goblin. Probably too late for this, but I'd think goblins would try to defend their king, perhaps intercede themselves between you and the king, or something...


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eytanz
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These are goblins you are talking about. They're probably all hoping you'll kill the king so they can take over...

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Banjooie
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eytanz wrote:
These are goblins you are talking about. They're probably all hoping you'll kill the king so they can take over...

To be king, Numsgil did in Blog, who did in Unkful, who did in Viddle, who did in Loll, who did in Alrok. . . .

b0rsuk
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It could be anything else. Use your imagination. Some kind of a whistle, a piece of red cloth, alarm trap... in Crawl, there's a yell command, which has good chance of turning fleeing monsters back at you and cancels stealth.

I can't forgive Erik/the person responsible for making mimic a potion.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 04-22-2006 08:06 PM]

Syntax
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Is "piece of red cloth" the answer?

NiroZ
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b0rsuk wrote:
I can't forgive Erik/the person responsible for making mimic a potion.

and what was he supposed to make it? Its only a cloning potion.

Mattcrampy
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I'm thinking that the potions are supposed to be a vaguely ridiculous idea. Such a useful tool, and it's brough into the world by something that makes no sense.

In any other game, I'd question it, but we all know what DROD's sense of humour is like. It has giant cockroaches. The game is in many places absurd.

Considering that, magic potions that create mimics don't seem all that out of place.

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gamer_extreme_101
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Well, potions aren't the only way. You could have a man working a "Double Stand", where you request a double, tell him where to place it, and he hurries out there, risking life and limb, just to place your mimic or decoy for you.

Just pray that when he sees a roach, he doesn't start cursing. After all, who wants the game to be a CROC?

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Krishh
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Okay, so that was me trying to be sarcastic. It got a bit muddled, I guess. What I was saying is what B0rsuk said better now. It's only logical that most suggestions come in the form of a potion becsue people are influenced by the precedent set by Erik himself. Why bother thinking up some fancy piece of red cloth, when another weird potion would fit right in? Also, come to think of it, fitting in might now be the reason why making random stuff into a potion actually *would* be a good idea.

Banjooie
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Guys.

If anything is going to tick off every single goblin in the room...

It has to be your sword destroying a wooden lampshade.

Ravon
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Yeah, but then we need to hear that same joke in every single DROD version, just to explain it (not that it wasn't funny...)

Banjooie
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No, that would be the beautiful part.

In TCB, for instance.

"Ah! A wooden lampshade! If I break it, that'll really tick the goblins off. Why? Exactly."