Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

The trouble with spiders is they're mostly just roaches with a 'gotcha'. That can be nice sometimes, but its not really that distinctive, and its use is limited (at least if you want anyone to PLAY your hold). But at the same time, you can't really CHANGE their mechanics.

But what you can do is add a new tile overlay: webs. Spiders would treat webbed tiles exactly like any other tile, they can move through them freely.

Anything else could enter webs freely, but only leave webs a.) onto another webbed tile or b.) onto a normal tile from a web only contacted by one other web.

For instance, this web is inescapable:
.W.
WWW
.W.

While this web can be escaped from anywhere but the center

W.W
.W.
W.W

Webs cannot be cut by sword, but can be bombed (which could create new exits from a web, or destroy existing ones).

Brained creatures would refuse to enter webs which have no exit from which they can reach Beethro, but would enter if he is reachable.

Lastly, webs would block the spread of tar and mud (this is to prevent information hiding and based on the fact that fuses do the same).

I see alot of puzzle potential here: battling spiders in webbed rooms, new ways to manipulate roaches, puzzles where you use bombs to manipulate what parts of webs are accessible, and rooms where you need to balance their tar and monster containment properties with their beethro containment properties. Also, they could be used atmospherically, since if you begin a room on web and avoid exit points, it effectively becomes the standard floor of the room.

PS: I'm undecided on webs and serpents. They could either ignore them (too big to stick), treat them as obstacles, or follow the same entry exit rules as any other monster (which would make them a serpents worst nightmare).


____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

I like it. And there's a host of other ideas to go along with it:

Spider Queens who will spin new webs as they move. Move like roach queens unless beethro is on a web connected to the SQ. Then they move towards him. (like an insect stuck in a web... the spider feels his vibrations and moves in for the kill). And they could potentially lay new spider eggs every spawn cycle.

Snakes should not only be able to move through the webbing, but should destroy it (imagine a snake in real life moving through a spider's web... no chance)



____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

Neat! Just the type of idea I like!

Could someone give this gentleman a rank point for me? I'm fresh out.

---

[Last edited by Ezlo at 03-20-2006 11:35 PM]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

damn, how come you thought of that?
i was meant to think that, dammit.

just goes to show that there are still good ideas to be thought of.

Bombadil
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 509
Registered: 06-01-2005
IP: Logged

Cool idea! Something has to be done with spiders.

stigant wrote:
Spider Queens who will spin new webs as they move. Move like roach queens unless beethro is on a web connected to the SQ. Then they move towards him. (like an insect stuck in a web... the spider feels his vibrations and moves in for the kill). And they could potentially lay new spider eggs every spawn cycle.

I like the idea of spinning new webs but not the one of the spawning new spiders. Too much similar to Roach Queens, we already have 4 monsters that behave the same way: roaches, tar babies, mud babies and spiders (let's hope this one has something new to do from now on). I think it would be better not to repeat behaviors and make new creatures with new features.

The idea of spinning I think it would be better to spin if they're in a tile in contact with a tile with web.

Btw, will Spider Queens be invisible too? Because if they spawn invisible roaches that would be too much caothic and un-deterministic (in the way that you don't know what's going on).

Another idea. Can spiderwebs be onto pits? And if so, can Spider Queens spin more web on pit tiles next to webs? (Anyone remebers Gorax's spider in
the Ewoks movie?)

EDIT: I think spiders queen moving like roach queens is a bit weird since they can kill him. I think it would be cool if they could move only on spiders web and spin new web. If Beethro is outside their spiderweb they behave like roaches and if Beethro is on their website (or on a square adjacent to it) they move like goblins.

---

[Last edited by Bombadil at 03-21-2006 11:37 AM]

Stephen4Louise
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 548
Registered: 04-06-2005
IP: Logged

Bombadil wrote:
Another idea. Can spiderwebs be onto pits? And if so, can Spider Queens spin more web on pit tiles next to webs? (Anyone remebers Gorax's spider in
the Ewoks movie?)

If webs are spun on pit tiles, can Beethro walk on the spiders web to cross pits?

---

[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 03-21-2006 11:29 AM]

Bombadil
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 509
Registered: 06-01-2005
IP: Logged

Stephen4Louise wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
Another idea. Can spiderwebs be onto pits? And if so, can Spider Queens spin more web on pit tiles next to webs? (Anyone remebers Gorax's spider in
the Ewoks movie?)

If webs are spun on pit tiles, can Beethro walk on the spiders web to cross pits?

That's the idea.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Nah, that's this idea.

I knew I had heard something like this before.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Krishh
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 282
Registered: 06-05-2004
IP: Logged

Why couldn't the ordinary spiders spin the web? Of course they could only continue an existing one, so as to not break current rooms. So if you want a spider to create a new web, just place one under him, or have puzzles where you have to lead a spider to a web and then have that spider create a bgger one. (for example for trapping monsters)

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

Hmmm... with the restrictions on entering and exiting a web, having new web be spun could easily (and considering how movement order can shift where a monster ends up, rather unpredictably) make formerly passable webs impassible. Also, while you're on a web, new webs would make you MORE manuverable, not less, since you can move freely within the web, just not outside it.

It might be ok for a new 'spider queen' type monster to do this, but for regular spiders to start spinning webs would break most of the new potential webs had just created for spiders.

If there were to be a spider spawner created in the game, it would probably be best to make it a stationary egg sac that only spawns onto web squares, that way the invisible menace is coming from a predictable place, at a predictable time, in potentially limited amounts (but Beethro must enter the web to fight it, leaving him vulnerable to spider blitzes while he has limited mobility)

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3734
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

I really love the webs idea, I have another...

I think, the Spider Queens should be only able to walk on webs. They should only be able to spawn spider eggs on webs. And they could only move near the borders. So they cannot neither enter deep web, nor leave it.

..........
.xxxxxxxx.
.xXXXXXXx.
.xxXXXXXx.
..xxxxxXx.
......xxx.

If we say, that:
.=Floor
x=border/shallow web
X=not-border/deep web
then will can say, that Spider Q. will only be able to walk on small "x"'ses. To make it more interesting, the queen will kill you, if you will try to stand next to her (It reminds me of the black widow). And so on, to make it more, more interesting, we could add a Spider King. If you will stand in the distance of 5 squares of his position, he will consider you as enemy, and will behave like goblin, just to try to kill you. However, if you will leave that square, he will return to the place where he was standing. He won't move (unless you stand on that indicanted distance). But if he would be placed next to the border, he will spin web on free floor next to him, and he will move forward on the web when the spawning begins (ahh, I forgot the proper words...). And again, he will spin web, and move forward. If he meets wall, and at the spawning he can't move forward, he will behave like spider queen, and try to find some "border" web, which is next to empty floor. and then of course he again will do the spin->move. If there is no more free floor which can be "webbed" he will start to behave like goblin, but he can't leave the web. That's what I managed to invent in few minutes .

But I love this idea(not mine, but mine is not too bad, I think.).

____________________________
My website | Facebook | Twitter

---

[Last edited by skell at 03-29-2006 05:10 PM]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

I think that when spiders spawn, the eggs should be visible, thus removing most of the guesswork.

and perhaps create a new monster (called weaving spider or the like) that weaves webs.

also, you could make it so that the web acts as an alarm to the spiders on it, or have a second type of web that does that.

then have it so that the other monsters, prefer to stay off webs, but will go on if they are next to the sword(within constraints of their AI, of course), which is vice versa for spiders, thus explaining why they were seen off webs.

(sorry if someones mentioned these already)

NekoIncardine
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 127
Registered: 08-23-2005
IP: Logged

Here's my compiled simplified idea for Advanced Spiders/Webs. Cue the Savato music from Trauma Center. >.> <.< (Anyone who has managed to get to the Savato mission - the REAL one - in that game is awesome).

The new mechanics can be sorted into up to four discreet items.
* Webs: A new movement-limiting mechanic for Beethro and all non-flying monsters. Once they get on them, he can ONLY get off by stepping onto a space which has at most one web space orthogonally surrounding it. Can stack with Orthogonal squares or force arrows for further restrictions.
* Spiders: Are mechanically identical to how they are now - exactly identical. Meaning, they ignore webs.
* Savato - erm, Spider Queen: Spider Queens stay along the edge of the web except to bolt across it if Beethro's sword gets too close from the outside. They will lay eggs every thirty ticks on adjacent non-edge web tiles. Also, melts Beethro's sword when he stabs it, so he has to get Halph to go get him a replacement - erm, wrong game.
* Web Weaver: Web Weavers move once every five ticks along the spaces just outside the edges of the web they must start along, moving clockwise around it. A Web Weaver only moves once every five ticks, but the instant it lands on a tile, that tile becomes web.

... I am now picturing all of the GUILT strains from Trauma Center as DROD monsters. This is not good.

____________________________
The secret to using a sword is that you hit people with the sharp end and then they die.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

How are webs going to work for TCB? Seeing as there won't be a grid, are webs going to stay in a grid and use some sort of 'percentage in web' thing to work out entanglement, or do you think it'd work in more of a spread pattern?

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

---

[Last edited by Mattcrampy at 04-01-2006 01:02 PM]

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

Seeing as there won't be a grid

There's no grid in TCB? What do you mean by that?

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

trick
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2580
Registered: 04-12-2003
IP: Logged

stigant wrote:
There's no grid in TCB? What do you mean by that?

Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag .. It was decided that the grid of squares used in the DROD games so far was primarily an artificial limitation and that by removing it, we could obtain greater variety and freedom in puzzle design (not to mention better, non-tiled graphics). So, in the 3.0 engine, in stead of moving entire squares at a time, monsters move one pixel for each pixel you move.

(Traditional, grid-based rooms are still possible to create, but this is mostly for backwards compatibility.)

- Gerry

Swivel
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 236
Registered: 09-14-2005
IP: Logged

I keep reminding myself that it's not April Fool's Day.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Um, whoops.

But yeah, the grid was gotten rid of so that they could get multiplayer working properly.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

And so that they could get the free-rotating laser gun to work too.

Also, the Slayer will be a cyborg outfitted with grenade launchers.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

trick
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2580
Registered: 04-12-2003
IP: Logged

In case anyone was in doubt, my post above was all lies. Lies!

Stupid time zones.

- Gerry

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

As were mine.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

I have to admit, the demos would look pretty cool.