Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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Wouldn't it be nice to have a toggable transperant map whith a changeble size? I often find it needlessely complicated to have to open the restore window in order to know where to go in a large level.

This may be minor, but it would be good.

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

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I've often wished that the pop up in-game map would at least be larger than its non-popped up counterpart. I usually end up going to the restore screen to figure out where I am and where I'm going.

So I second this request.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I think you can already do this...when you're playing the game, double-click on the minimap. It will show you the entire level. I just did this on MetDROiD, and it definitely showed as much of the entire, humongous level as could fit on the screen (and more than you'd see in the Restore screen, too). This was in JtRH 2.0.12...and it's been in for a while (although perhaps just another one of those "secrets" that should be documented but isn't).

Game on,

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stigant
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Yeah, that's the map I'm talking about. The scale of the map is exactly the same as in the lower left hand corner. You can see the entire level (whereas before you could only see the room you were in and the 8 rooms around you), but the details are still difficult to make out. If it was a little bit bigger (say 1.5x or 2x) it would be much more useful. Sure, maps like MetDROiD probably wouldn't fit (or they could be scaled to fit the screen) but 90-99% of all other maps would fit and be considerably more useful.

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[Last edited by stigant at 02-13-2006 06:21 PM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Ah, I see what you mean. Well, I figured that you knew about that map but it seemed like Blondbeard might not.

However...it sure seems to me that the minimap and the double-clicked map are both exactly the same size as the minimap in the Restore screen, with the exact same amount of detail. With the exception, of course, that you can click on any room in the Restore screen and see it close up. So it's an interesting idea to be able to have the double-clicked map be zoomed in a bit...it would definitely help up to a point. Perhaps it should be scaled such that a 10x10 level would fit on the screen...anything much larger than that and you might as well use Restore anyway.

Game on,

____________________________
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michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Even if the rooms appeared larger on the map, they'd still be difficult to recognise, since they're drawn with totally different colours etc. It would be really great if rooms on the minimap were drawn exactly the way they look, only smaller. Abdul's map of KDD L13 gives a good idea of what the level map could look like.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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Yes, I'd want the game to load every single room in a level, then figure out which ones I've been to, then change them all into thumbnails, and then put them all into an image, every time I clicked on the minimap.

Wait, no I wouldn't.

michthro
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Your sarcasm is totally uncalled for, Banjooie. What you describe would be a very amateurish way to go about it. It can be done easily. All I'm suggesting is that the level maps be given a much-needed facelift.

forrestfire
Level: Delver
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I would also like to see this put into the game. Preferably having the thumbnail images like michthro said. The minimap has never really been that useful to me as it is.

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Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

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Would you be worried that it would obscure information in the process?

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Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

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I don't think I understand--what information would be obscured?

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

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Pits, for instance. Where the edge of the room is. I'm suggesting that shrinking down the ingame graphics to the size of the map will make the thing look very unclear.

When I have time tonight, I'll grab a level and shrink it down so you can see what I mean.

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michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Pits, for instance. Where the edge of the room is. I'm suggesting that shrinking down the ingame graphics to the size of the map will make the thing look very unclear.

Oh that. Yes, I only gave Abdul's map to give an idea. Of course there's more to it: You'll need grid lines so that room edges can be clearly seen. Rooms should have a red/white/green rectangle around them to indicate their state. Simply resampling full-scale tiles to their minimap versions would often look ugly (they'd have to be carefully crafted), etc.

Currently, each tile on the minimap is represented by a single pixel (maybe it's 2x2, I can't tell), drawn in some arbitrary colour, with many tiles that are very different from each other not distinguished. This makes it very unclear, and rooms are hard to recognise. A good start would be to use more appropriate colours, corresponding to the actual tiles. Ideally, make the mini-rooms bigger and more detailed, for an effect something like Abdul's map (with grid lines and so on).

bradwall
Level: Smiter

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Mattcrampy wrote:
Pits, for instance. Where the edge of the room is. I'm suggesting that shrinking down the ingame graphics to the size of the map will make the thing look very unclear.

When I have time tonight, I'll grab a level and shrink it down so you can see what I mean.

I agree with matt on this one. I think that squeezing the graphics down would make things harder to see. I think what is there is sufficient.... however, that is just my opinion.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

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Mattcrampy wrote:
Pits, for instance. Where the edge of the room is. I'm suggesting that shrinking down the ingame graphics to the size of the map will make the thing look very unclear.

When I have time tonight, I'll grab a level and shrink it down so you can see what I mean.

Oh! Yes. I see; I'm sorry, you're absolutely right. I had still been envisioning something in between--larger than the minimap, but not with the full detail of the rooms themselves, either. Like, maybe, something twice the size of the minimap but with the same detail.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Tahnan wrote:
I had still been envisioning something in between--larger than the minimap, but not with the full detail of the rooms themselves, either.

That's what I mean. Maybe I should clarify: I'm talking about the map that comes up when you double-click the minimap. My idea is to make the rooms larger, as stigant suggested, and show more detail. That can't be any less clear than the current map. The graphics are squeezed down as it is, and there is no correspondence between full-size tiles and the colours they are represented by on the map. Just imagine Abdul's map, maybe a bit smaller, with coloured rectangles around rooms to indicate their state. How can that possibly be less clear than the current map?

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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Something I would like would be if you each time you enter a level get a complete map of that level (that is before you've actually visited any rooms). DROD should not be about guessing, so I think it would be neat to have the information before you rush into things. One could for example explain this by saying that the architects guild makes a map of each level placed in the entrence room. This could be a nice toggable map in the style michthro is sugesting.

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

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I don't agree. I wouldn't stop playing DROD if you had a map up front, but I don't consider it a good feature. For one thing, it would break the Fool's Errand. For the most part, you don't really need a map up front to solve a hold. Its not hard, based on where you've already been to find new passages to find new rooms to beat.

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Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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I know it´s minor, and it would kind of destroy the Fools Errand. What I don´t understand is what other reasons there could be not to show the non-secret rooms of each level... It would just be another possability for those that want to use it. You could just chose to never let the map show.

Chalks
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 267
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maybe you could give the architect the option to allow the map? That way it wouldn't break any current holds, and would be a nice feature for any future holds.

Chaco
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If an architecht wants to make a map of the hold, they can do it with an image floor ala Fun Park.

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Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

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I'm wondering about this assertion that the colours are arbitrary. I'm seeing your point about tar, but all the other colours basically follow the rule of light colours = walk on them, dark colours = can't walk on them, and everything basically shares the colour of the element that it represents.

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Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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I think the confusion surrounding the colors is that the colors on the mini-map do not necessarily correspond to their color in the room itself. For instance: Stairs, which are blue, but yellow in the minimap.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Mattcrampy wrote:
...everything basically shares the colour of the element that it represents.

Ummm...we're missing each other somewhere. The blue and white checquered floor style, for instance, is represented by black, and generally, the colours on the minimap mostly depend on the room's state.

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[Last edited by michthro at 02-18-2006 09:05 AM]

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

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Floor's white. Walls are black. Pits are dark blue.

I can see the use for each style to have a colour scheme that matches the style, though, so in Foundation walls would be a dark purple and pits would be a dark greyish brown, while in Iceworks walls would be a dark cyan and pits would be a dark grey. I'd suggest that for clarity the floor would stay white.

Also, I think that the stairs should be replaced by a gradient, from white to blue (to avoid confusion with blue doors).

I once went and put coloured filters over the minimaps to see if having the whole square red was easier to see. It actually impacts clarity a fair bit, which is bad. Maybe it'd be good to have a red filter instead of the floor being red, but the filter fades in and out so you can still see underneath it. The stairs could do the same thing, pulse from regular to a big, bright cyan.

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