eytanz
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I'd love a checkbox on the room editor screen that makes it use the graphics for characters that they will actually use in-game. For an even nicer effect, have invisible characters be greyed out (like spiders). I sort of doubt the latter will happen, but even the former would be really great when designing a room with a lot of NPCs.

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coppro
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*concurs*

Ezlo
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I agree.

Chaco
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I don't see any reason not to.

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Banjooie
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Maybe they could be distinguished by some kind of mark around their tile?

Beef Row
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Banjooie wrote:
Maybe they could be distinguished by some kind of mark around their tile?

You mean to distinguish them from non-NPCs using the same graphic, right? Yeah, some marking would be needed, since confusing NPC goblins with real goblins for instance would at least as bad, maybe worse than having trouble distinguishing NPCs from each other

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eytanz
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Well, that's why I was suggesting to make it an toggleable option. It would allow the architect to normally tell the characters apart, but when necessary switch on the regular graphics and be able to judge what's going on in the room from the same perspective as the player.

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mrimer
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The toggle I use is F5, and ESC to toggle back.

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eytanz
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That's insufficient, for several reasons:

A - You can't keep the information on the screen when you actually need it. You have to press F5, memorize which character is which, press ESC, manipulate the characters a bit, by which point I've forgotten which is which and I need to press F5 again. In the TCB dev phase, when I was building - well, I can't say here, but I'm sure Mike knows which rooms I'm referring to - I spent more time pressing F5 and back than I did on the rest of the room development. That's just wasteful and really, really irritating.

What I want is an option that makes the information you need available on the same screen you want to use it in, while you're using it. F5 does not do that.

B - It only works for characters that are visible upon room entry. If you have characters that show up after several moves - or worse yet, that show up tied to puzzles - you're out of luck.

C - F5 also hides all the non-NPC characters, but if you have several of those next to the visible characters it becomes really confusing.

D - At least in DROD 2.0, when you have a lot of holds in the dat files, F5 is *slow*. On my JtRH installation - using a computer about 1.5 years old - F5 can take up to 20 seconds to work. I don't know if this will still happen in DROD 3.0.

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eytanz
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I should point out that this feature request is for an interface *improvement*. No-one debates that it's possible to use F5, or just clicking each character and seeing what graphic they use (making sure you don't screw up their orientations), or memorize everything, or stick little sticky notes to your monitor, or what not. I just think it can be done better.

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mrimer
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Sure, that makes sense. Thanks for writing out all the practical issues you're dealing with. I'm worried about cluttering up the interface, but this feature does seem useful. This gives me the idea for a toggle that would show the room as if playing the game -- it would also make tar appear solid, etc., so it would look more like what the in-game would be. Sound good?

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Ezlo
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Sounds great is more like it!

Chaco
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Go for it!

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eytanz
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Well, personally I don't see much utility in making tar seem solid - unlike with the characters, no information is hidden by non-solid tar - but there's no harm in it easier as far as I can tell.

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Banjooie
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It'll make it more obvious that 'These are the things you have hidden. Gasp!'

Edit: And two weeks later, I realize I've said 'I'll', rather than 'It'll'. Studies show I am not Mike Rimer, 9 times out of 10.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 02-14-2006 10:11 AM]

Maurog
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Maybe make them look like their graphics but have some means to distinguish them from real monsters. Something like a red circle around characters comes to mind.

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Tahnan
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Say [he asked, suddenly designing a hold with a lot of NPCs], whatever happened to this? It still seems like a good idea...

mrimer
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Tahnan wrote:
Say [he asked, suddenly designing a hold with a lot of NPCs], whatever happened to this? It still seems like a good idea...

I'm putting this in. I tried all kinds of schemes and various interfaces to display this information in a useful (and not annoying) way. All the details turned out to be surprisingly harder than I thought. Right now, the method I have settled on is to simply hold <Alt> to see NPC's in-game appearance, then let it go to return to normal. The idea of having non-visible NPCs be transparent is a nice one, too. Let's try this out in build 57.

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Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 02-15-2008 12:43 AM]

Tahnan
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Fantastic! Thanks!