Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

I've recently come back to playing JTRH and designing maps. I have got to level 15 in the game but the weather caused the computer to go off, and when it came back on and I loaded up DROD, there were NO levels to choose from.

The original level set is gone, my home made levels are gone. Hopefully this is just a tiny corruption rather than a loss of all those hours of work

Does anyone have any ideas on what to do?

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Sorry for the double post, but I've tried fiddling, restarting the computer to no avail. So we're talking easily about 100+ hours of editing and playing up the swannee unless someone helps me

How on Earth does all the levels get wiped out by the computer being powered down on the title screen? It just doesn't make sense.

I am getting really sick of computers . Just the other day I was writing a song (I'm an electronic musician) and I had 7 backup copies of this song, and overnight they all stopped working. This was on my /other/ computer.

I think I have a mutiny on my hands.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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It's really a bummer, and I don't know what to say. If nothing can be salvaged we can probably get you a player file around level 15, but of course your holds would be lost. I am sure you are already kicking yourself over not exporting files as backups...

I suppose it is possible that your player.dat file (or possibly other .dat files) is still complete but is slightly corrupted, in which case it perhaps could be rescued by someone who knows what they are doing. I guess one thing I would do would be to install a new copy of JtRH in a different folder, and then compare the sizes of the .dat files between the corrupted version and the new version. If the old version has bigger file sizes, then there might be something there that can be saved. If not, then I am out of ideas.

I'm going to move this to the Bugs forum and mark it to notify Mike.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Thanks, Oneiromancer. I'll try that now. I do have a lesser developed version of the hold but the best level is completely missing and I did loads of tweaks. I'd probably just start again from scratch. I'm surely a better architect now anyway.

Incidentally, I've also started an DROD: AE hold, it has one completed level and a few unfinished ones, and the difficulty is mostly easy so far, with the odd mild bit here and there.

Sendy

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Ok, I've installed JTRH again, the player files for both are the same size.

The DAT files are of differing sizes in a way I can't correlate to anything significant. The old data.DAT is actually smaller than the new install, probably not a good sign. The most notable thing is that the old folder has a file called drod.err which is 75KB and is not present in the fresh install.

I think I'm just going to potter about making a new hold and give this a while to seep in (no pun intended), and maybe a solution will appear. If not I would greatly appreciate a save file for level 15 since it feels like I've achieved a minor miracle by getting that far

Sendy

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Well, check the drod.err file (you can read it with any text editor) and see if it has any entries for the day of the crash, or right afterwards.

Mike told me that the drod2_0.dat file is the one that has most of the progress data in it, so that would be the one to upload to the forum so he can see how it is corrupted.

Let's wait for a bit before providing an advanced saved game, just in case this is recoverable.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Ok, here's the drod2_0 file attached. Since it may have (I hope!) my hold designs in it I've marked it as copyright and naturally I discourage people from downloading it unless they are specifically trying to help me fix this problem.

As for the error file, I didn't see any dates in there that were '06 at all, but I can post the entire thing up if it helps. There are lots of errors, though most of them seem minor.

EDIT: It won't let me upload it. Maybe it is too large? It's 15,312KB.

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[Last edited by Sendy at 01-04-2006 10:11 PM]

jamie
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 365
Registered: 04-15-2005
IP: Logged

One thing, I'd suggest copying the current state of the old corrupted files somewhere before fiddling/loading the old version again...

If there is the possibility of someone retrieving your data from these, the last thing you want to do is make the situation worse.



____________________________
#f3i2g# Disclaimer: I'm Welsh, left-handed, and stupid. #f3i2g#

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[Last edited by jamie at 01-05-2006 12:34 AM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Sendy wrote:
EDIT: It won't let me upload it. Maybe it is too large? It's 15,312KB.

Oops, yeah, that's too big for users to upload to the forum...10MB is the maximum. However, the fact that it is large is hopefully promising, since a basic install is only about 1.25 MB. I think we're just going to have to wait for a more official answer from someone...

Edit: have you tried zipping it? Compressing it might actually get it down low enough...worth a shot at least. And actually, once you compress it, please e-mail it to bugs@caravelgames.com instead of posting it to the board.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Schik at 01-05-2006 06:33 AM : 2MB -> 10MB]

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Ok, done. It was 5MB on the slowest compession method.

Sendy

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5056
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Sendy wrote:
Ok, done. It was 5MB on the slowest compession method.

Thanks.

To all:
I've received the file and responded to Sendy. The situation looks grim. It appears like another application stomped on the DROD data file, but some parts are still intact. If someone on the forum can copy raw room records from binary data and place them in a good metakit file, then maybe some rooms are retrievable. There's no telling which levels they belong to, though. I have the zipped 2.0 file if someone wants to attempt this Herculean task. Neil and Matt are helping out with rebuilding saved game progress.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5056
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I've looked into some things to see whether this problem could be prevented somehow. I found out that shutting down the power in the middle of a game session shouldn't necessarily break DROD's data files, unless the shutdown caused data on the hard disk to become corrupted. (In which case, probably only keeping backups of data files can help avoid this.) Here's some information regarding the data storage library that DROD uses:

These datafiles are failsafe, in that failures at any point, even power failures, will not lead to damaged datafiles.
This is due to a technique called "stable storage".

Still, there may be cases when datafiles do get damaged:

* hard disk failures which actually damage block (or write incomplete ones)
* stray writes in the app damaging buffered changes which DROD writes to file
* opening files for writing more than once
* file server caching problems
* bugs in the database code
* bugs in lower system levels (compiler, libraries, o/s)

So most probably there isn't a bug in DROD that needs fixing here. (Though I'm sure this won't make Sendy feel better... )

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

It'd be nice to have some middle ground between exporting all user holds and player files (time consuming) and making copies of the entire data folder (wasteful of storage space)

Perhaps allow marking specific holds for automatic exporting each time DROD is shut down, if the editor has been visited or a change made?

As for player data, it takes so long to export it, perhaps an option to export then close DROD/switch off the PC, so I can just walk away while it's doing its stuff?

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

I'm just going to try and move on from this. Like I said I have a backup but it's not recent at all, and I'm not a 'rebuilder' (someone who has the patience to recreate something when they know it'll never be quite the same). Thanks for looking into this guys, I appreciate the effort... Maybe in some bizarre way it's for the better?

(No, I don't know how either, just humour me, OK?

Here's to the drawing board!

Sendy

gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1939
Registered: 03-07-2004
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Sendy, it may make you feel a bit better knowing that the exact same situation happened to me....twice. The best that you can do is continue to hold you head high, and learn to make regular backups.

Alternatively, I'd be interested to see if anyone could make a program that is able to backup your data files at specific intervals and save them with a timestamp. I recall Schik telling me at one point that it would be possible with a script in Linux, but if a real program could be made, that would be uber-cool.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

File: backup.bat (281 bytes)
Downloaded 41 times.
License: Public Domain

Backing up could be as easy as double clicking on a batch file shortcut on your desktop. Here's a guide

http://www.speedguide.net/read_articles.php?id=1547

I've attached one I put together (without reading the above article) - modify for your own needs as required, if you want. But don't mess up and delete your drod folder then blame me, OK? The attached backup.bat will need to be modified to point to your DROD folder. It backs up the dats using a maximum of 4 'slots' deleting the oldest when you back up again. The folders have static names (backup1, backup2 etc) but the folder creation dates will indicate when the backups were made. They'll all be in the \\data subfolder, though you could alter that to another drive for additional security.


The problem with backing up this way is, those dats get pretty huge (I'm at 200MB and rising per 'slot') so more than one or two backups are going to eat drive space. This may be plentiful nowadays, but I have better uses for it than multiple duplications of exactly the same data, most of which can be replaced by a normal reinstall. All those eggs being in one .dat basket has the occasional drawback.


The batch file could be modified to back up the entire nest of subfolders as well as just the dats if there were any interest in this. Probably the easiest way to do this would be by invoking something like winrar or 7zip to do all the dirty work. Downside being it'd be slower if you used compression.

I should add that this is only tested with Windows XP - I'm not clear on the differences between command line options between versions of Windows. Might work in 2000, probably will work with 2k3, don't know about Win9x or ME.

I've also just modified to batch file to point to the default install location, rather than the one I was using.

---

[Last edited by StuartK at 01-06-2006 04:20 AM]

gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1939
Registered: 03-07-2004
IP: Logged

And the most hassle-free way of making this effective would be to throw it into your Startup folder. That way, it would automatically run while your computer starts up. Great job, StuartK!

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

And on an entirely unrelated note, it seems I've finally achieved Smitemastery

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Actually, I'm really glad you let me know, because I've been having god-awful luck for the past week and this makes me feel slightly less persecuted

I have to admit, I've never lost anything on Windows before, this is my first time. I'm used to backing up my professional projects but rarely do it to games. Until now that is...

Sendy

gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Sendy, it may make you feel a bit better knowing that the exact same situation happened to me....twice. The best that you can do is continue to hold you head high, and learn to make regular backups.

Alternatively, I'd be interested to see if anyone could make a program that is able to backup your data files at specific intervals and save them with a timestamp. I recall Schik telling me at one point that it would be possible with a script in Linux, but if a real program could be made, that would be uber-cool.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Hey, holds are professional projects, especially if they're SS holds

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Sendy
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 43
Registered: 09-16-2005
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
Hey, holds are professional projects, especially if they're SS holds

That's actually quite true. But I haven't released any public holds yet so I'm not quite ready for professionalism.

Hopefully in due course.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Stupid question, but (and I assume from the above that you're using XP), have you tried scandisking ? It can recover data files, but unfortunately, the program is "hidden" if you're used to pre-XP:

My Computer
Right click drive
Properties
Tools
Error-checking -> "Check Now"

It can recover lost clusters, and for anyone who remembers 3.11, well... this does a brilliant job. It's all about the cache

Also, check Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> System Tools -> System Restore.

You might have a restore point close to the point when the crash happened. This is especially true if:
* The HDD isn't actually corrupted (as per a full scandisk sector scan)
* You've got XP SP 2, with default options
* You leave your PC on Friday nights (default run time I believe)

The other option, which I use, is to get a voltage based surge multiplug (10 quid). All my expensive stuff is plugged into that, and it's saved the situation a couple of times - and no need to ever change the fuse! Had an electric, water based, radiator (!) burn through a mains cord of a hairdryer whilst plugged into it... with the PC, stereo and TV plugged in alongside.

Radiator's dud, house fuses are knackered, but DROD is fine

Hope you find a solution.

Interestingly, it would also be possible to use cygwin to cron a backup, but I guess that can wait another time...