Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
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Here's my new Dungeon that I had to rebuild 3 times!
Ok this time it's almost complete and it works.

For this hold, I want you to look for Trivial solutions, because I'm sure there's a lot.

EDIT: Removed the hold.

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[Last edited by Dali at 01-06-2006 08:08 AM]

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
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I don't want to be a nitpicker, but Beethro normally has a capital letter, whether in Arrival 1N or not. Also, the local currency is the greckle

In addition, a dungeon works better if the stairs don't return you to the entrance.

Also, if you click on the level entrance than you can change the introductory message from "Entrance 7".

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[Last edited by coppro at 12-30-2005 07:18 PM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3691
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Also, you can have a seperate level entrance right by the main level entrance saying something to the effect of "Beethro began to climb the stairs, but came back down since he wasn't a coward", and using that entrance for the stairs by the hold start. That way he isn't just plopped down at the start, it looks like he went down stairs, but you can't exit the hold.

EDIT:

Also, the stairs in Arrival 1N1E are b0rked - they lead back to Arrival The Entrance.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-30-2005 09:43 PM]

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

All right I remove the entrance to get back to the previous levels. (Fixed)
I didn't write a description level for all entrances so don't take an importance on it. I'll propably do it later.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
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BUG alert-

After playing level 3:1N1W you return to L3:1N and are stuck.

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

larrymurk wrote:
BUG alert-

After playing level 3:1N1W you return to L3:1N and are stuck.

I already fixed this Bug I my new attached file. Thanks anyway.

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[Last edited by Dali at 01-02-2006 07:52 AM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

OK, I yield. How the heck do you solve First Level - 1S1E?

It seems to me that



Which one of these beliefs is wrong?

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
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I have not solved this room nor 1S.

I'm waiting to finish the hold before making in-depth comments.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

larrymurk wrote:
I'm waiting to finish the hold before making in-depth comments.

Fair enough--but if you run into an unsolvable room, can you make a shallow comment to that effect, lest I tear out any more hair? :-)

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
OK, I yield. How the heck do you solve First Level - 1S1E?

It seems to me that

Click here to view the secret text

×You have to have the mimic do the final killing, because you can't go down the east side of the central block without being trapped down there;
That means that you have to be in the C-shaped section on the east side, to get the mimic;
And the mimic has to start in the little corridor above you, so he can hit the orb up there;
But from just to the west of the west-pointing arrow, it's seven moves followed by a west-and-down move to get to the entrance to the second block, and Beethro can only make six moves without going into the narrow corridor, at which point he can't make the necessary down move to get the mimic into the entrance.

Which one of these beliefs is wrong?

Yes you're right, I think it's impossible. You get stuck if beethro kills the roach in the central block
I'll fix this. Thanks!

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[Last edited by Dali at 01-04-2006 01:51 PM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
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Hm. I don't have Larrymurk's patience, so I'll post the occasional comment as I go. 3:2N1E has what I think must be an unintended solution:



I think this can be stopped with



?

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
Hm. I don't have Larrymurk's patience, so I'll post the occasional comment as I go. 3:2N1E has what I think must be an unintended solution:

Click here to view the secret text

×Just drop the mimic in the snake's chamber, kill the snake, and you're done.

I think this can be stopped with

Click here to view the secret text

×a wall at (27,18), to stop the mimic from hitting the orb below there

?

Ouch, didn't see it. thanks again. Seems that my hold still have a lot of problems.

EDIT: New attached file.

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[Last edited by Dali at 01-04-2006 07:59 PM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
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Dali wrote:

larrymurk wrote:
BUG alert-

After playing level 3:1N1W you return to L3:1N and are stuck.

I already fixed this Bug I my new attached file. Thanks anyway.

Did you? It looks like the tar at (11,9)-(11,10) still blocks you into 3N.

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:

Did you? It looks like the tar at (11,9)-(11,10) still blocks you into 3N.

Sorry but I don't understand. which room are you talking about?

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

File: Lendy.exe (63.3 KB)
Downloaded 55 times.
License: Public Domain

Note that these comments are based on the last version of the hold, not the one you just uploaded yesterday.


Level 1:

1N1W- Demo. OK, but Im not sure exactly what you wanted. You can simply run straight down the path with the trap doors and I don't think you need the top two orbs.

1N- Fine.

1N1E- Fine

1N2E- Easy, OK.

1E- I'm generally not excited by rooms that must be played through multiple times. OK.

2E Demo. Extremely easy.

3E- I like.

4E- I don't really enjoy rooms like this w/ many orbs/doors. OK.

1S- UNSOLVED. I can't solve the area behind the red door.

1S1E- UNSOLVED. See Tahnan's comments.

1S2E- OK.

1S3E- OK. Again, not my type.

1S4E- OK. What about a green door near the SW exit so the room can be crossed easily each way once completed?


Level 2:

2N1E- Demo. I'd say my solution is unintended. I didn't use the tunnels.

1N2W- Fine.

1N1W- Fine.

1N- Fine.

1N1E- Demo. I never used the SE area.

3W-OK.

2W- OK.

1W- OK, but I'd make it easier to pass the room from East to West once completed.

1E- OK.

1S3W- OK.

1S2W- Good.

1S1W- OK. Don't need to use broken walls and tunnel.


Level 3:

4N1W- UNSOLVED. Tricky.

3N1W- Demo. Unintended solution? Again, I'd also make it easier to pass the room in all directions once completed.

3N- OK.

3N1E- OK.

2N1W- BUG? Can not exit south once the tar mother is killed?

2N- OK.

2N1E- Demo. Unintended solutions. See Tahnan's comments. Also, you can easily use the tar without ever using the 4 doors.

2N2E- OK.

1N1W- OK.

1N- Bug mentioned in earlier post. Can't traverse room from West.

1N1E- Demo. Unintended solution.

1W- Entertaining.


Level 4:

1N- I didn't complete this. It seems like some trial and error so I'd like save pts. on all 4 sides.

1N1E- Pretty easy, OK.

1E- Demo. Unintende solution.

2E- UNSOLVED. I use 1 golem for the SW roach leaving me 2 more golems, but it appears I'd need 4 golems to handle the final roach.

1S2W- OK.

1S1W- Demo. Unintended solution?

1S- I like.

1S1E- OK. Make it easier to traverse the room once completed w/o hitting all the decoys every time.

1S2E- OK.

2S1W- Nice room. I especially like the West chamber. Add a save pt. in the central chamber maybe?

2S- I got to the snake before realizing you need to keep the goblin. I haven't replayed it yet but assume it can be done.

2S1E- OK.

2S2E- OK.

3S1E- OK.


Level 5:

2N- UNSOLVED. I don't see how the roach queens can be killed.

3N- OK.

4N- OK. I think it might be nice to add any monster so so the room can be conquered and people can get high scores. I think even just putting brains in the centers of the 3x3 trap doors that don't have orbs.

5N- OK.

5N1W- Has been done before(JTRH). OK.

5N2W- I don't like the idea of having a room remain unconquerable. Maybe you could make the guards be characters so the room doesn't show up as red.


Overall comments:

Often you make it easy to backtrack through a completed room, but it is hard to go through forward again.

Also, I like save pts. and I'd recommend adding some more.

I like your hold. I found a lot of rooms that were fun to solve. Great job!!

My demos are attached in a self-extracting file.

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[Last edited by larrymurk at 01-05-2006 04:39 PM]

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

Excellent Job Larrymurk!
You did an awesome summary. Thank you so much.

I'll fix all the things that you said.
I was sure there was a lot of unintended solutions!
In general, I found quite hard to see trivial solution especially when it's your hold. Thanks again.

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[Last edited by Dali at 01-05-2006 05:15 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

You're welcome Dali.

I just downloaded your latest and I see that L3:2N1E trivial solution still works. You can kill the mud mother, then place the mimic to kill the snake, then have the mimic hit the orb.

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

larrymurk wrote:
You're welcome Dali.

I just downloaded your latest and I see that L3:2N1E trivial solution still works. You can kill the mud mother, then place the mimic to kill the snake, then have the mimic hit the orb.

Yes you're right. But please, give me an idea for how to fix this, because in my new attached file (take look at it, I fix maybe all the things) I thaught that I have fixed it but there still this trivial solution.

Also: For some BUGS that you've found, some of them I didn't repair them because it's possible. If I tell them I may give the solution.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

File: Lendy from larry 2.exe (53.1 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

First off, stop w/ the mod points already. I'm happy to check out a hold (especially when it is a good one).



Level 1:

1S1E- I see you've changed this. Just make sure you have played and solved it.


Level 2:

2N1E- I like.


Level 3:

3N1W- Demo. Still unintended solution?

2N1W- BUG?


2N1E- Sample mod room attached.


Level 4:

1N- Much easier now.

1E- Just make sure this can still be solved. All the arrows point INTO the SE area.



Level 5:

2N- I still don't see how the east roach queen can be killed. As long as you know it can be done.

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[Last edited by larrymurk at 01-06-2006 02:05 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

Quick update: I now solved L1:1S and L3:4N1W.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3691
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

The arrows in Level 1, Once North, Twice East trap you inside the roach manipulation wing unless you've solved Level 1, Twice North, Twice East. An arrow going past the green door in 2N2E should fix this, or a simple removal of the force arrows in 1N2E.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 01-06-2006 01:01 AM]

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

For continuity, all your stairs ought to have scrolls.

Other than that, I love your use of green walls to make a sadistic maze that just opens up.

Dali
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
The arrows in Level 1, Once North, Twice East trap you inside the roach manipulation wing unless you've solved Level 1, Twice North, Twice East. An arrow going past the green door in 2N2E should fix this, or a simple removal of the force arrows in 1N2E.

I don't see L1 2N 2E In my dungeon.

Now for Larrymurk Post:

3N1W- Demo. Still unintended solution?

I know there must be a lot of ways to complete this room. It doesn't atter much.

2N1W- BUG? Can not exit south once the tar mother is killed?
OK, to be more clear on this.. A player can complete the level. The question is, "Do you want to force the player to have to go to the restore screen if they make a mistake here?"

Why not. I want to let it like this. I want to force the player to think. And if you read this, please put your comment for this room in a secret tag.

2N- I still don't see how the east roach queen can be killed. As long as you know it can be done.

Forgot the red door! Fixed.

2N1E- Sample mod room attached.

Good idea. Thanks.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3691
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Sorry. I meant Twice East, Once South and Twice East.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):