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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (INTRIGUING NEW PUZZLE CONCEPTS)
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dreamisle
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 icon The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (+1)  
Ok, I don't post here much, but if ya do remember me, I tried making a trivia hold with some math problems in it. The problem with that was that not only were some of the math problems not common knowledge, but the hold was made in DROD AE, and JtRH would easily spoil the whole room I used.

So here's an attempt using the scripting and magic of DROD JtRH. The questions are simple and easy if you've ever played DROD. if you haven't, you really should because it's a great game. Let me know what you think of the puzzles/riddles/questions/whatever. I believe the hold is anyone edit so you can use the puzzles in your holds if you wish.

Edit 8/10: Fixed unintended solutions in a few rooms as well as a bug allowing you to answer a question twice.

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 11-20-2005 07:58 PM]
08-09-2005 at 06:06 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (+1)  
:~( Still no replies...

Anyway, I added another puzzle to the mix, and it requires some mimicry and nonsense not seen in the other puzzles, so bring out a tiny bit of skills. The questions that aren't DROD common knowledge are simple things to look for in the hold, like the number of something before more spawned or which ones are real. I also made a slight edit to the entrance to accomodate 1 north's new puzzle, but there's still a slight bug to be fixed for the final. 1 south 1 east has also been slightly modified but I won't give away why just yet.

The newest file is DOWN BELOW!

____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 08-11-2005 08:32 PM]
08-11-2005 at 01:17 AM
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agaricus5
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (+1)  
This is a nice little 5-minute diversion with a cool concept; it's a shame it's so short.

Anyway, here are my comments:

Click here to view the secret text


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08-11-2005 at 01:46 AM
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TripleM
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (0)  
I agree with all the above points - just one thing I have to add:
Click here to view the secret text
08-11-2005 at 02:04 AM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (0)  
Ok, those suggestions sound reasonable, but I was wondering if someone could explain how the If..Then Goto... part of the script editor works. I Understand the Goto part but not the If...

As for everything else, see below:
Click here to view the secret text


I'm glad you liked it as a small diversion but I do hope to expand it into a full hold with a lot of unique puzzles and maybe some good ol' hack'n'slash time in there too.

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
08-11-2005 at 02:46 AM
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krammer
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (0)  
If... GoTo must be followed by a Wait For/Wait While/Wait Until command. If the condition of this next statement is true the script jumps the the Label specified in GoTo. If not it carries on as normal.

So this script:
If... GoTo Label1
Wait for player at (X,Y)

will check if the player is at X,Y and if they are it will jump to Label1, otherwise it ignore the command and carry on as normal.

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08-11-2005 at 11:42 AM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (0)  
Thanks a ton for explaining that :) I fixed all the things mentioned above and redid a lot of scripting using the If script which helps a ton. I will be adding some more rooms today as I get bored and come up with new puzzles, but I'll try to do another 'binary puzzle'.
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 08-11-2005 06:25 PM]
08-11-2005 at 06:24 PM
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dreamisle
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File: The Hold of Knowledge.hold (8.1 KB)
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (+1)  
More minor adjustments have been made to a few rooms and a couple more puzzles have been added. Let me know what y'all think.

The newest file is DOWN BELOW!

____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 08-12-2005 04:10 AM : changed, old file]
08-11-2005 at 08:32 PM
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Banjooie
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (0)  
All I'm going to say is: God bless you, Doom.
08-12-2005 at 12:23 AM
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dreamisle
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File: The Hold of Knowledge.hold (75.5 KB)
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (A Trivia Hold) (+1)  
Did you reply to the wrong topic or is there some inside joke here where I'm on the outside?

NEWEST FILE IS DOWN BELOW!

New version has some new rooms with more story to work from. You can't complete the hold in this manner, but there's also a shortcut staircase for those of you who played the previous versions. Please reply with input, suggestions, bugs, etc.

____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 09-03-2005 07:07 PM]
08-12-2005 at 12:25 AM
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dreamisle
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File: The Hold of Knowledge.hold (79.6 KB)
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (+1)  
Added some new rooms and puzzles and a new level has been started with a few puzzles. I tried making one of those non-scripted passwrd puzzles that Doom invented a while back (credit given via character naming) but haven't tested it because I had to hammer out a few bugs before it. Let me know what y'all think and such and I'll be happy to answer your requests.

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
09-03-2005 at 07:06 PM
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Alneyan
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (+1)  
On level 1: I think the mud question room doesn't work... at least, I did it randomly (I hadn't noticed the red tile and hacked away at the mud), and it worked fine, though I was very wrong.

I also had some trouble with the layout of the hold, as I didn't quite follow the route you had expected. I ran into a couple of questions that were related to rooms I hadn't seen yet, so those questions were a lot easier to answer. Perhaps you could give some directions, or enforce a linear order?

On level 2: The password puzzle seems to be working fine. I don't have any room specific comment on that level yet.

It's a very nice hold, though it can be hardly compared to most other holds.
09-03-2005 at 07:54 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
Hmm, I'll have to think about the layout of the first level quite a bit more. The mud puzzle was kind of a quick, botched together thing so I could finish level 1 and do more of level 2, so I might end up changing it or figuring out a better concept for it. Thanks for trying it though! :)

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
09-03-2005 at 08:27 PM
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Chris
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
I just tried this hold and found a problem in the very first room.

Get the first question wrong - cut down through the middle of the tar - and keep going down until you're standing on the open yellow door. The orb will fire, but you won't be told whether you were right or not until after your next move. Move up, off the open yellow door. You will be told that you were right!

I looked at the script (my first ever look at DROD script) and saw that the code is like:
Wait for player to step on either open door
Strike orb
If ... go to "bad"
  wait for player on left-side door
If ... go to "good"
  wait for player on right-side door
Label "good":
  (do 'good' stuff and exit)
Label "bad":
  (do 'bad' stuff and exit)

I put an extra 'speak' line before the 'Label "good"' line and found that both the 'If' lines were failing, and that the script was 'falling through' to the 'good' case.

How is the "wait for player" thing supposed to work? Can you wait on two different regions at once? And if so, how long should it wait? I can't see why it should be falling through to the 'good' label since the docs suggest that the wait is indefinite.

Chris.
09-04-2005 at 12:25 PM
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Chris
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
I found the answer to my own question in schep's scripting reference http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=6605). Perhaps that thread should be 'sticky' here?

Turns out "wait for" commands don't wait for anything(!) when they're used as conditions, they just test for a condition and return immediately. So the problem with the room is that it is striking an orb between the first 'wait for player' and the subsequent 2 tests, allowing the player to have moved off the door. It works better if the 'strike orb' command is moved to just after the two speech commands ('you're right' and 'you're wrong').
09-04-2005 at 12:54 PM
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Chris
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (+1)  
In 3S1W the riddle is quite easy. Only 3 of the 5 clues are needed:
Click here to view the secret text


It's not clear that you're supposed to stand on the red square next to halph's house. My first guess was that I was supposed to use the orb outside, like a doorbell or something. If you do that and then stand on his doormat he says "I can open the door for you", but he can't, because he's locked in!

Note also that if you pick the wrong house, you can simply kill the monsters before he locks you in. Shouldn't they be invincible?
[Last edited by Chris at 09-04-2005 02:05 PM : close 'secret' tag properly]
09-04-2005 at 02:04 PM
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Chris
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
In 2S2W you can go straight to the red carpet in the top right corner after speaking to the mud baby. He'll open 3 of the 5 doors for you, and you can then open the other 2 without having to know the answers.
09-04-2005 at 02:17 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
Thanks for your help Chris :) The mud puzzle in 2S 2W is going to be taken out because it sucks and has numerous flaws. If I do keep it I'll change the puzzle so there's a force arrow at the top and a green door to let you out in the bottom. I'll recheck my scripting in The Entrance and fix the riddles and monsters in 3S1W, as well as add more puzzles to level 2 before I do my next upload. Thanks a ton!

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
09-04-2005 at 02:35 PM
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Chris
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
You're welcome.

Just in case there's any doubt, I didn't look at level 2 yet. All my comments refer to level 1.

I made a few changes to the scripts in the room where there are 4 tunnels, mostly 'cos I was curious about scripting. I'll upload it later if you like so you can see it. Gotta go out for a bit now though.

Chris.
09-04-2005 at 04:01 PM
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Oneiromancer
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
Chris wrote:
I found the answer to my own question in schep's scripting reference http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=6605). Perhaps that thread should be 'sticky' here?
It's sticky right now, and I think it's been sticky for a long time (I could be misremembering though).

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
09-04-2005 at 06:12 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
Alrighty, here's an update. I added some extra rooms and started the 3rd level. Its not gonna make much sense. I'm gonna start adding not pr0n-ish junk soon. Maybe. I have no idea. GOTH OF KNOWLEDGE!

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
11-20-2005 at 07:47 PM
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Chaco
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated Sept 3) (0)  
dreamisle wrote:
GOTH OF KNOWLEDGE!

*agrees* :D

Alright, I'll download this new version. Personally, I didn't like the question where you had to find out how many roaches were real, because after killing them you can't count them anymore.

EDIT:

How do you get past the Level of Un-Knowledge entrance? You need all four mimics to get past the first few doors, but then you don't have anything to blow up the bombs. And, of course, you die if you blow up the bombs.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text

[Last edited by Chaco at 11-21-2005 01:01 AM]
11-21-2005 at 12:50 AM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (+1)  
For the Entrance of level 3,
Click here to view the secret text


As for the how many real, how many fake question,
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
[Last edited by dreamisle at 11-21-2005 02:17 AM]
11-21-2005 at 02:16 AM
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Banjooie
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
Is level 3 something that only works if Patch 0.10 is on?
11-21-2005 at 05:28 AM
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Chaco
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
Yeah, that's what I was trying, but then it's impossible for you to blow up the bombs to get access to the next room. If you blow up the bombs, they blow up yourself. So that's no good.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text
11-21-2005 at 11:08 AM
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MeckMeck GRE
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
Level 1 : 1S1E. If you do the quiz a second time the door of answer 4 (the correct one) wont open anymore.
11-21-2005 at 12:33 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
Sorry you guys, I forgot that there was a scripting glitch after I uplaoded level 3. The next demo will have a working level 3.
As for L1,1S-1E, you are only meant to do the quiz once since afterward it's not needed due to the green door near the bottom. I'll try to come up with a way to force a solution if you do the quiz.

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
11-21-2005 at 08:33 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
Sorry, I have a lot of incomplete and/or broken and/or trivial puzzles right now, but here's the new demo.

Its anyone edit right now, but I'd appreciate if you play it through before you tinker. I'd really love some ideas for any new kinds of locks/puzzles. There is also a hidden level that you can get to from the cheating staircases at the beginning of level 1 or somewhere in level 3. If you can figure out how to make my scripting work I'd love that because I have no idea why it's broken.

____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
11-25-2005 at 03:16 PM
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dreamisle
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 icon Re: The Hold of Knowledge (updated November 20) (0)  
The secret exit is to the glitched level that I need help fixing. The other one should be open after you beat everything else but I think I made the exit stairs required so I'll fix that soon, but theres nothing after that so I won't updatetoo quickly.

____________________________
The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!
11-27-2005 at 04:11 PM
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