New temporary highscores page

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agaricus5
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

Tscott wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:
1st place bonus - +16 (Only one person can get this)
I'm not understanding this part of your proposal. So the first person to get 1st place gets 16 points? Wouldn't that just be the first person to complete the room? Or do you get 16 points until someone beats you and then those 16 points get taken away from you and added to the person who beat you?

Oh, sorry. I meant that you get 16 points for being in first place in a room, just like the system we have now. I was just emphasising the idea that only one person can actually have those 16 points at any one time. Maybe I'll go and edit it.

Edit: Adding in reply to Neil's post.

Oneiromancer wrote:
Actually, Wesley, I was mostly trying to say that I view your "innovation bonus" as something that could be added to any high score system, and thus deserves being discussed on its own merits, but doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the discussion between the proposals we have so far...as far as I can tell, at least. I suppose if it were much more complementary to one proposal over the other, and people really liked it, then it could be considered in support of that proposal.

Ah, yes. I understand what you're talking about now (after about 5 reads). It was just something I thought might make the scoring system a little more fair in terms of rewarding the effort required to get a #1 placement a little better.

So, to get back to the base system, I think the current new system is better, since with Watcher's idea, the time aspect of things is still rather prominent, as Oneiromancer said, while with Maurog's idea, the 1/x factor will bias scores towards the top players by a factor rather than a number, so since the score ratio will be the same, as total scores get larger, the gap between players will increase exponentially, which wouldn't be very psychologically encouraging.

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 07-31-2005 08:21 PM]

07-31-2005 at 08:02 PM

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Maurog
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

When I say 1/X, please don't take me literally.
Incidentally, if you take, say 48 to be N and use the formula N/(X+2) you get 16 for the 1st place, 12 for the 2nd, 10 for the 3rd and so on... The only downside is that this kind of system tends to be more rewarding to lower-placed people, like, place 24 still gets 2 points, not 1. Which is not necessarily bad. On the other hand, making N dependant on the effort it required you to complete the room can be nice. Again, you don't have to just use the number of moves in the best solution as N... it can be like, N = sqrt(M)* 3 or something. And don't tell me it doesn't motivate people to improve scores because it lowers the N. People will still want to be 1st place and know that they won't be pushed off there so easily.

Summary of my system:
Take M which is the number of moves in the current best solution.
Calculate N = 3 * sqrt(M).
The scoring for place X is N/(X+2).

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08-01-2005 at 07:33 AM

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agaricus5
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

Maurog wrote:
When I say 1/X, please don't take me literally.
Incidentally, if you take, say 48 to be N and use the formula N/(X+2) you get 16 for the 1st place, 12 for the 2nd, 10 for the 3rd and so on... On the other hand, making N dependant on the effort it required you to complete the room can be nice. Again, you don't have to just use the number of moves in the best solution as N... it can be like, N = sqrt(M)* 3 or something.

Summary of my system:
Take M which is the number of moves in the current best solution.
Calculate N = 3 * sqrt(M).
The scoring for place X is N/(X+2).

The square root makes the scoring factors more fair, I agree, but there is still the problem of the ratio with scoring (probably now somewhere between x^-1 and x^0) which will eventually come out in time, given enough rooms. I like the idea of the weighted scores in terms of the length of the demo, though, so maybe a system that uses your idea, but only introduces a number difference between people of different ranks, not a ratio (like the system now) might be a good idea. Also, using your system directly will yield some nasty rounding problems which will eventually cause point skewing between ranks (unless Schik wants to leave in quite a few decimal places).

Edit: Is the new highscores2 page updating properly yet, or is it still inaccurate?

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 08-01-2005 05:36 PM]

08-01-2005 at 04:33 PM

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Syntax
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

I personally love the idea of the bonus point for the first time (only) that you manage to achieve a high score on a given level, as long as that level involves at min x moves, and at least y kills as proposed agaricus5.

08-02-2005 at 08:14 PM

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Schik
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+4)

The highscores2 page is currently updated correctly when new demos are uploaded. The logic for that was surprisingly more complex than the old logic, so I've written something to check for errors in the rankings, and have caught several bugs already. It hasn't caught anything new in a while, so I think I've finally got all the weird cases caught. I'm pretty sure we'll transition to this new scoring method once I'm sure all the bugs are gone.

In the meanwhile, I added a new Miscellaneous page to the highscores2 page. It's got some fun stuff and some kinda goofy, meaningless stuff. Hopefully it's mildly interesting.

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08-03-2005 at 06:01 AM

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agaricus5
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+1)

Schik wrote:
In the meanwhile, I added a new Miscellaneous page to the highscores2 page. It's got some fun stuff and some kinda goofy, meaningless stuff. Hopefully it's mildly interesting.

Mildly interesting?

The miscellaneous tab is hilarious! It's got some really cool statistics in it. I wonder, though, exactly what was going on during July 25-26 - there seems to have been an uploading spike to around 3600 demos (I play slowly, so it couldn't have been me directly). Also, it seems that the most downloaded players are roughly correlated to the number of #1 scores they have, although I guess it's also to do with how long the #1 scores have been held for as well.

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08-03-2005 at 11:05 AM

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rowrow
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+1)

That was right after the Smitemaster Selections came out.

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08-03-2005 at 11:35 AM

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Jacob
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+1)

"The Final Confrontation. Explored: 34 Conquered: 4 Total moves in #1 demos: 8477"
Yet:
"There are no high scores for this level yet." (for all levels)

I don't get this inconsistency.

Liking the new system, btw.

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08-03-2005 at 03:23 PM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+1)

Only the top 20? Pshaw!

But seriously, the miscellaneous stuff is great. Although I do download my own demos a bit (as I play on two different computers and I am vain/forgetful), so the most downloaded figures could be skewed a little.

It's interesting to see which are the most-downloaded demos, but it might be more interesting if demos were collected into rooms, rather than individual demos. (so JtRH:L22:3N would be 21+17+.., rather than having two separate entries on the scoreboard)

There is a small error with the longest rooms - "H I J K: This Unrest: Entrance" is listed twice - it looks as though it is because the room was changed.

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 08-03-2005 03:31 PM]

08-03-2005 at 03:27 PM

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Syntax
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+1)

Gosh..!

No appreciation

Ok, I'll be constructive... Very fun tab

08-03-2005 at 08:10 PM

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Schik
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Re: New temporary highscores page (+2)

Only the top 20? Pshaw!

It was top 20 only because I wanted some crowd reaction before going to the trouble of adding paging to it.

it might be more interesting if demos were collected into rooms, rather than individual demos

I had that on my list of things to try for the Misc page, but I decided not to add it. It's in now - but now, we have three tables based on number of downloaded demos...

Anyways, I added paging to all of the tables, and I highlighted lines that have the viewer in them.

I also fixed the bug with the longest rooms - you're right, it was looking at deleted demos when it shouldn't have been. Of course, at this point I could probably actually purge those deleted demos, as I'm pretty sure the spider's not screwing up.

Any more ideas for the Misc page?

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[Last edited by Schik at 08-04-2005 05:51 AM]

08-04-2005 at 05:16 AM

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zex20913
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

Ideas for the Misc page!!!

Longest demo totals for a hold. (Take the highest scores and total them)

Death counts.

Monsters killed counts.

Moderately dull ideas, but certainly miscellaneous.

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08-13-2005 at 03:55 AM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: New temporary highscores page (0)

zex20913 wrote:
Ideas for the Misc page!!!

Longest demo totals for a hold. (Take the highest scores and total them)

You can already see this on the Holds tab (although you currently can't sort by the totals)

--

Most of what I want is there now, but one thing that isn't a list of the most recently beaten #1 scores.

More generally, it would be nice to only look at some of the Misc stats and the "My Scores" just for one hold. For example, if I want to see what the longest rooms just in KDD2, or I want to find out what my worst positions are just in JtRH, it's not easily obtainable.

One more suggestion - I wanted to find out what my demo speed is (#259: 2.48mps woo!), but involved a fair bit of searching. Could all data (like speed, overall ranking, etc) be gathered on one page?

08-13-2005 at 04:42 AM

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