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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1What rating would you give Entry #5?82.4494897427832
2What rating would you give Entry #2?7.45454545454551.8763424945955
3What rating would you give Entry #10?7.36363636363641.2984415324623
4What rating would you give Entry #6?7.27272727272731.6006197146963
5What rating would you give Entry #11?7.18181818181822.4427325168263
6What rating would you give Entry #13?71.9540168418368
7What rating would you give Entry #3?6.45454545454551.7248787237282
8What rating would you give Entry #12?6.27272727272731.7627926754241
9What rating would you give Entry #14?6.18181818181822.3671302847803
10What rating would you give Entry #7?62.4494897427832
10What rating would you give Entry #8?61.7056057308449
12What rating would you give Entry #4?5.63636363636362.3460887091934
13What rating would you give Entry #9?4.90909090909092.2342192231717
14What rating would you give Entry #1?3.81818181818182.4052284646042
What rating would you give Entry #1?
12345678910
Average Vote 3.8181818181818
Standard Deviation 2.4052284646042

What rating would you give Entry #2?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.4545454545455
Standard Deviation 1.8763424945955

What rating would you give Entry #3?
12345678910
Average Vote 6.4545454545455
Standard Deviation 1.7248787237282

What rating would you give Entry #4?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.6363636363636
Standard Deviation 2.3460887091934

What rating would you give Entry #5?
12345678910
Average Vote 8
Standard Deviation 2.4494897427832

What rating would you give Entry #6?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.2727272727273
Standard Deviation 1.6006197146963

What rating would you give Entry #7?
12345678910
Average Vote 6
Standard Deviation 2.4494897427832

What rating would you give Entry #8?
12345678910
Average Vote 6
Standard Deviation 1.7056057308449

What rating would you give Entry #9?
12345678910
Average Vote 4.9090909090909
Standard Deviation 2.2342192231717

What rating would you give Entry #10?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3636363636364
Standard Deviation 1.2984415324623

What rating would you give Entry #11?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.1818181818182
Standard Deviation 2.4427325168263

What rating would you give Entry #12?
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2727272727273
Standard Deviation 1.7627926754241

What rating would you give Entry #13?
12345678910
Average Vote 7
Standard Deviation 1.9540168418368

What rating would you give Entry #14?
12345678910
Average Vote 6.1818181818182
Standard Deviation 2.3671302847803
Total Votes 16 100%
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Jacob
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My votes are now in. Some very nice rooms, and clever scripting.
Look forward to seeing where some of these rooms are from.
There's an excellent puzzle in there, and I'd like to play that hold, but obviously can't ask which one it's from!

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07-17-2005 at 07:03 PM
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Ander
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Yeah, my votes are in, as well. Seeing these scores, I wish I'd given out less 9's. I guess I just don't want to win. Still, there's a couple rooms here that I certainly wouldn't mind my entry losing to!
07-18-2005 at 10:29 AM
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Banjooie
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Oh yeah. I didn't do /nearly/ as awesome on mine as some of these guys have. I'm almost ashamed.
07-18-2005 at 05:49 PM
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Maurog
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Some nice pieces of work out there. My votes are in, hope I wasn't too generous to my rivals. Oh well, may the best man win.

Poor smitemasters :) They have lots of work on their hands.

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07-18-2005 at 08:28 PM
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Jacob
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Huh? Each bar chart contains 9 votes, but 12 people have voted. Just thought I'd point that out.

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07-21-2005 at 10:46 AM
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Rabscuttle
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I'd wager that's from people who select "View Results" and forfeit their right to vote.
07-21-2005 at 11:52 AM
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Ander
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Do we know exactly how many people submitted holds? I'm sure it's less than 14, but at least 9. That'd tell us how many people still have yet to vote.

[Last edited by Ander at 07-21-2005 11:08 PM]
07-21-2005 at 11:07 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I haven't voted yet...

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07-22-2005 at 02:29 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Ander wrote:
Do we know exactly how many people submitted holds? I'm sure it's less than 14, but at least 9. That'd tell us how many people still have yet to vote.
Hmmm...How classified is that information...

Meh, probably not that much. There are 9 people who entered. Do the math from there.

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07-22-2005 at 03:07 PM
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goldenlion
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You architects make me wish I'd tried my hand at this. I love the redesigns, and there are some really brilliant ones in here. May the best remodeling win!

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07-22-2005 at 07:21 PM
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techant
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goldenlion wrote:
You architects make me wish I'd tried my hand at this. I love the redesigns, and there are some really brilliant ones in here. May the best remodeling win!

Thanks :D I know I had a great time doing it. I am glad I choose being an architect the other job seems more difficult. I haven't voted yet either but will soon.

I voted now I will have more to say later...

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[Last edited by techant at 07-24-2005 02:08 AM : I voted]
07-22-2005 at 08:54 PM
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Ander
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Hmm. I take it anyone can vote, then? Because more people have voted than there are architects, at this point. I'm not complaining, mind.

[Last edited by Ander at 07-24-2005 11:18 AM]
07-24-2005 at 11:18 AM
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Maurog
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Of course everyone is allowed to vote. Architects, smitemasters and just about anyone who downloaded the holds and checked them out.

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07-24-2005 at 11:24 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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IIRC, the only people who can't vote are me and Erik, although I'm sure Erik could if he really wanted to. That said, anyone can view the results if they decide they don't have the time/effort/patience to properly check all the submissions out.

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07-24-2005 at 04:02 PM
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Ander
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Oh, cool. See, when I read "Architects' Poll", I parsed it as a poll FOR architects rather than a poll ABOUT architects.

Crazy, I know. But again, I'm not complaining! The more people that vote, the better. The averaging effect minimizes the influence of bizarre voting like my own.

Speaking of which, I'm really curious about the outlier vote on the hold that previously had the smallest standard deviation in its scores. (That was intentionally worded to convey as little information as possible to people who haven't voted yet.) I think, after the voting period ends, we should post actual reviews so we can see what worked and what didn't.

[Last edited by Ander at 07-25-2005 09:26 AM]
07-25-2005 at 09:23 AM
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Rabscuttle
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Ander wrote:
Speaking of which, I'm really curious about the outlier vote on the hold that previously had the smallest standard deviation in its scores. (That was intentionally worded to convey as little information as possible to people who haven't voted yet.) I think, after the voting period ends, we should post actual reviews so we can see what worked and what didn't.

I would assume that it is the result of someone forgetting to set their vote (seeing as the default is 1). Fortunately, it didn't affect the result.

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 07-27-2005 06:26 PM]
07-27-2005 at 06:26 PM
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Ander
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It looks like the poll is finished! I don't have the time at the moment to post full reviews, but I will at least explain my voting method.

My first approach was to craft a series of questions about each hold, the answer to which would determine the score I gave. These were questions like, "Did the architect expend a lot of effort in redesigning this room?" (which was worth between 1 and 3 points), "If this room uses scripting, is the scripting clever and original?" (a yes being a +1 to that hold's score, a no being worth 0), "Does the room evoke an interesting setting or storyline?" (yes: one additional point; no: score remains the same), etc. A hold which got the best possible outcome for every question I made would get the full ten points, while a hold that got the worst possible outcome would only get one.

The problems with this approach were twofold: first of all, the subjective nature of most of the questions meant that I was basically asking myself "Do I like this hold enough to give it the points for this question?" four or five times to determine the overall score, which defeated the point of having the questions in the first place. More importantly, however, I realized after doing the first six holds that nearly all the holds were going to hover in the 5- to 7-point range. I'd rather grade on a curve, frankly.

My solution was to divide the holds up by what they attempted to do, and then rank them within those groups by their effectiveness at reaching that goal.


I divided the holds into three groups. The first group were the holds which didn't seem to attempt anything obvious other than simply present the existing room with new components--the simplest possible goal. I'm sure this is a subjective assessment, but it worked for me: after much debate, I included Entries 14, 9, 11, 4, and 7 in this category.

The second group was actually more obvious than the first: these holds attempted to make an actual picture or pattern with their redesign. In the end, I only included Entry 1 and Entry 8 in this category.

The last group (which is where I put my hold) attempted to create a coherent setting or story for the room. To me, this is the most admirable and impressive of the three styles, and the rooms I enjoyed the most were all in this category. That is to say, Entries 2, 5, 13, 10, 6, 12, and 3.

By ranking the entries within each category, and then ordering the categories (third, second, first), I was able to create a complete ranking of all the holds in the competition. I then assigned scores according to a bell curve. The end.
07-27-2005 at 08:26 PM
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Banjooie
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Yeah.

Shows me to try to join contests when I haven't had much sleep and am attempting to do things on caffeine.

--Yeah.
07-27-2005 at 09:00 PM
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Tim
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I don't have too much time to comment right now, but what I found while visiting these holds, is that obstacles actually made the room quite messy. It is very distracting to have a lot of obstacles on screen. (Yes, I know I made a hold once with a lot of obstacles.) But many different sized obstacles made me squint when there's also a hard puzzle to solve.

Some of the scripting were really good, very funny in fact. But to be fair, many rooms with great looking features and simple scripts just made me think: "Was that all?" or "Why is that text covering the monsters?"

Ander, I find your catergorisation quite interesting. Although I think you've correctly identitified the techniques that's being used, I still find some of the remakes not better than the original. Maybe because I've played most of the original rooms before (I also like old version of music better than remakes, but that's my personal taste).

Last but not least, I agree with Ander that I find all holds made the transition quite well, and I would like to see more.

-- Tim

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[Last edited by Tim at 07-28-2005 10:45 AM : made the text less harsh]
07-27-2005 at 10:54 PM
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Doom
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Oh yeah, I think I could've been less lazy with scripting. (I'm sure that Tim is referring to at least other one of my entries) I just didn't feel creative... I agree that rooms with very much objects look often messy. That was IMO a small problem in #13, but not so disturbing in #5. (Which was just great)
07-27-2005 at 11:29 PM
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Oneiromancer
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When I considered how the rooms looked, I tried not to consider the original rooms too much, considering that two of them were from one of my holds (I'm pretty sure I can say that, since I think the other contest is over too). I tried to play through them as much as I could, in order to observe the scripts...if they were too hard or too annoying then I didn't finish them, typically.

I didn't really like obstacles being placed inside walls for no apparent reason, and there were some rooms where the floor style confused me enough to affect my playing of the room. I did like rooms like #5, with the wraithwings which were scripted to run away, and so didn't have any effect on the solution. There were other things which annoyed me, but I don't want to be mean so I won't describe them.

I think that overall, everyone did a good job, so congrats all!

Game on,

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07-27-2005 at 11:46 PM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Yeah - the last part between the two side winners is on now, so I'd prefer you don't say who's entry was who's, but I will list the locations of the rooms now, seeing as they don't affect anything big.

Entry #1 - Claythro Tower, Fifth Story: Once East
Entry #2 - Beethro's Dance of Death: Once South, Once East
Entry #3 - Treasure Hunt, The Horde: 1N1E
Entry #4 - Treasure Hunt, Tomb Vault: Once North Thrice West
Entry #5 - Veere's Dungeon, Veere's Dungeon: 4N2W
Entry #6 - Contest Hold, Contest Level: One South, Twice West
Entry #7 - Beethro's First Job, 7th floor - Brainiac!: Once South, Twice East
Entry #8 - Penthouse, The Snake Pit, 3N
Entry #9 - rowrow's hold: how to keep idiots busy, Level 2: Once South
Entry #10 - Phil's Dungeon, Fourth Level: 1N2E
Entry #11 - Tacker's Tower, Ground Floor: 1N
Entry #12 - Labyrinthitis, Disorientation: 1 South
Entry #13 - Unfortunate Architect Compilation, Snakey Geniuses!: 1S
Entry #14 - Unfortunate Architect Compilation, A Total COnversion: 1N


And I think we *all* knew about Entry 9, considering all the problems that arose from it. At least they got worked out.

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[Last edited by gamer_extreme_101 at 07-28-2005 12:00 AM]
07-27-2005 at 11:59 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I completely forgot about scripting and that we were encouraged to do it. To be quite honest, I was shooting more to make the room unrecognisable.

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07-28-2005 at 12:32 PM
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Banjooie
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Totally, Matt.

That was my intention as well.
07-28-2005 at 04:00 PM
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Jacob
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I almost didn't recognise entry 12. Which is funny since it's a room from one of my holds. So well done on that front, whoever you are. I'll write some comments soon...

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07-28-2005 at 05:02 PM
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Mattcrampy
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No. 12 was me. I was shooting to make the thing non-recognisable, and I think I did a good job with everything except the top-right corner.

If I had remembered to do scripting, I would have put skulls on the road (to signify 'ghosts') that start talking about traffic jams when you get near them.

I probably also would have had some wraithwings around the edges, acting like birds, and have them attack a roach on the little part at the bottom.

Hindsight is great, isn't it?

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08-02-2005 at 06:02 AM
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Jacob
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In case anyone's interested my ratings were:
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08-02-2005 at 07:43 PM
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