xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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File: Jims hold 2.hold (3.8 KB)
Downloaded 57 times.
License: Public Domain

I've started work on my second hold. There's only 3 puzzle rooms so far, but I'd like to get feedback as I go. I've used some puzzle ideas from other people, especially 1S 1E has a part very similar to a room in old school. The other section is based on a room in Gunthro and the Epic Blunder, but it has been modified to make it harder. 1N 1E is mostly original, but I used an idea from Penwielder's Palace.

Edit: newest version is attached here

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[Last edited by xitvono at 08-20-2014 07:13 PM]

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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I've added a couple of rooms to this hold. Do you think any of these puzzles are too hard? I feel like the wraithwing puzzle and 1n 1e may be really difficult.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Considering I couldn't conquer any of the first 3 rooms I saw after the entrance, I hope a better player can help you with testing.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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Thanks for looking at my hold. At least it gives me some indication of the difficulty of the hold. Feel free to ask for hints on any of the puzzles.

kieranmillar
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3199
Registered: 07-11-2014
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So I thought I'd give this a try but like larrymurk every room after the entrance room was simply too difficult. I think I understand what I'm supposed to do in all of the rooms except 1N1E (where the only sticking point is I'm assuming the roach needs to kill the snake in the area with the hot tile but I don't know how to get it in there). For the other rooms I think I have the right idea but the execution is far too tricky for me to get everything in the right place.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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for 1N 1E the thing to know is that if a brain instructs a roach to make a wait move, then the roach will ignore it and move as unbrained. Since brained monsters prefer to move N W E S over waiting, and that over moving diagonally, you can use a rock golem corpse to make this possible.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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For 2E I recommend to use either 3 or 4 wraithwings. I wouldn't worry too much about movement order.

Are you able to solve 1E 2S? I implied from Larrymurk that he had trouble with 1N1E, 2E, and 1S1E. Also, is any particular part of 1S1E giving you trouble, since it's basically 2 puzzles in one.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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File: Jims hold 2.hold (3.2 KB)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's 3 more rooms. One is a secret room that is nearly identical to another room except the player must use sword instead of staff.

kieranmillar
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3199
Registered: 07-11-2014
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xitvono wrote:
for 1N 1E the thing to know is that if a brain instructs a roach to make a wait move, then the roach will ignore it and move as unbrained. Since brained monsters prefer to move N W E S over waiting, and that over moving diagonally, you can use a rock golem corpse to make this possible.

So wait, do you need to get the roach next to the force arrow and then block it in with golem corpses directly N E and W? Because I don't see how it's possible to not have it just avoid the corpses by having the brain route around them otherwise.

xitvono wrote:
For 2E I recommend to use either 3 or 4 wraithwings. I wouldn't worry too much about movement order.

Are you able to solve 1E 2S? I implied from Larrymurk that he had trouble with 1N1E, 2E, and 1S1E. Also, is any particular part of 1S1E giving you trouble, since it's basically 2 puzzles in one.

I can kill the snake in 1S1E with no issues. It's easy, but getting into the golem area to hit the arrow rotation token is proving too difficult, even if I try to use the wraithwing to block their movement. I feel like there's some sort of particular movements to make that might possibly depend on movement order needed here. I've tried shuffling the golems around in their little room to see if that makes a difference but nothing was working.

Sorry I forgot that 2S1E was another room that I simply don't know how to solve. I can't see how to either cut the gel safely nor reach the pressure plate. I can see how I can safely get a recording from my clone by making the movements needed to the the gel and then pushing him into the right place so I can simultaneously cut the gel, but when I do that I just get surrounded by gel babies and can't escape.

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[Last edited by kieranmillar at 08-05-2014 09:38 AM]

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 491
Registered: 04-06-2011
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Solved 1S1E. Should the snake bit be so easy? (get the wraithwing in a certain spot and hold 5)

The golem section is decent puzzle but I don't think there's much point putting 2 separate puzzles in 1 room if there's no interaction between them. (as a suggestion eg you could build some snake related puzzle involving a wraithwing such that keeping the wraithwing alive for the golems is a challenge)

kieranmillar wrote: I feel like there's some sort of particular movements to make that might possibly depend on movement order needed here. I've tried shuffling the golems around in their little room to see if that makes a difference but nothing was working.

Nothing that complicated, just think about what position you are trying to achieve. (vague hint, but I'll let the hold author give more if he wants to)



Finally, an instructive exercise for the hold author: go to options, set undo level to 1, then record a demo of 2E and 3E. You'll quickly discover what needs to be fixed

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 08-05-2014 09:42 PM]

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
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Ok I didn't think through that snake puzzle. I remember when I solved that similar puzzle in old school, I trapped the snake in the west end of the room, but obviously that isn't necessary. In my room it's even easier as one can simply wait safely from above. Well, I'm not sure what to do, but maybe I'll just remove the snake. And I realize I forgot to put checkpoints in those rooms, so that will be fixed in the next version for sure.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
IP: Logged

kieranmillar wrote:
So wait, do you need to get the roach next to the force arrow and then block it in with golem corpses directly N E and W? Because I don't see how it's possible to not have it just avoid the corpses by having the brain route around them otherwise.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
IP: Logged

I've added another room, and fixed some things. My guess is this room will be really tough, so I made it a secret room. Also I added an exit room. I'm don't feel like adding any more rooms to this, so please give me feedback before I start the approval process. The hold can be downloaded both here and in the original post.

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
IP: Logged

Just fixing a tunnel in the roach queen circle puzzle that made it trivial. After that I plan to submit this. Thanks to all who provided comments and thanks to those who's ideas inspired some of the rooms in my hold.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3692
Registered: 10-06-2005
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If the "roach queen circle" puzzle is 1S2E, it's still trivial in the current version since the west-pointing tunnel by the brains can take you to the escape tunnel. This could easily be fixed by moving that west-pointing tunnel south one square.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

xitvono
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 55
Registered: 09-15-2012
IP: Logged

Ok I actually moved the other tunnel 1 square south, which should have the same effect.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3692
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

xitvono wrote:
Ok I actually moved the other tunnel 1 square south, which should have the same effect.

You'll need to update the hold using the HA submission interface, instead of editing the first post in the thread. That way your changes will be reflected onto the hold being considered for promotion, and will show up in the hold file that everybody gets when it's put on the Holds board.

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One other thing (from an Architecture point of view, not an HA point of view): You may not want to put a conquer token in the orb chamber in 2E, since that means that all highscores will have a score of 4 moves (that being the time it takes to move to the mimic potion and place the mimic on the conquer token). You may want to put an evil eye or roach in there instead.

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For the secret room 1N2E, you should put a yellow door or a trapdoor under the conquer token, so that players can't place a decoy on top of the conquer token to trivially conquer the room.

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Also, you've got the default hold ending text - you might want to replace it with something more special.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-21-2014 12:14 AM]