RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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File: Tower of Din v12.hold (61.7 KB)
Downloaded 59 times.
License: Public Domain

This is a hold I worked on a long time ago. I abandoned it despite saying that I wouldn't. I really bothered me that I never got around finishing it. So I finally pulled myself together and did it. It's a bit shorter than the original plan, so the story got cut short as well. But still this is better than not finishing ever.

Attached is the current version of the hold. Feedback would be very much appreciated.

v8


v9


v10


v11


v12

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[Last edited by RuAdam at 10-24-2013 06:10 PM : new version of hold]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4592
Registered: 02-20-2007
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I like your custom monster. It took me a while to figure out its movement rules, but now that I have, most of these puzzles are pretty fun.

I noticed a couple of typos in the level entrance text. "Therein lay those who scheme" is inconsistent in tense. "Tis" should have an apostrophe before the T.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you liked the first new monster, but there will be others later on.

Also I apologize for typos. English isn't my native tongue, so mistakes happen. On that note. "Therein lay those who scheme" is inconsistent in tense how? I mean I take your word for it, but what would be the correct phrasing?

Hope you'll enjoy the later levels as well.

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4592
Registered: 02-20-2007
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Sorry, I should have been more helpful.

It should be "Therein lie those who scheme" if they are still there scheming, or "Therein lay those who schemed" if they are not. (I just had another look at the text, and either one would be consistent with the rest of it.)

I hope so. I've just got 4N6E to beat now, and it looks like a nightmare

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 10-15-2013 06:11 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Fun to see some new scripted elements.

Shifting Passage-
3N6E: I guided the rattler north, then west along the top, then south and into the cubby hole. Was that the intended solution?

Top of the Mountain-
Getting familiar with flying swords.

Floor 1-
I can not solve 1W or 1E.

Everything seemed reasonably easy other than the 2 rooms I couldn't solve. Haven't seen any problems yet.

D.Craven_0ne
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 201
Registered: 12-23-2012
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Well, apart from floor II/
2N(I think i know what to do but can't make it happen)
and 2N1W (Just looks horrible. xD) I've done the rest, but been stuck on those for 2 days now...

Mountaintop part/ I got like 80 deaths just trying to get to the secret. Than i noticed you can kill 1 enemy. Re entering from the secret the room leading to it can be done in 15-20 moves can't quite remember.

Floor 3. (I checked it in the editor) I looked over the scrolls and such, and noticed that you said the cristals are supposed to be stationary, yet i apear to be able to push them. Oh and, the last introduced type of enemy pretty much reasembles on the following turn I killed them on. Scroll said they supposed to on every 30. (is it because of a variable set somewhere else in the hold other than that room?)

At anyrate good job on the hold I liked it alot.
This might motivate me to finish my reasembling char too eventualy, I just hate creating graphics for them. (thats all I'm missing.)

Edit/Ok never mind, floor II/2N's done. Guess I'll have to do the speedpotion one now.

____________________________
..and remember kids, don't fear war! In nuclear winter, everyday's a christmas!

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[Last edited by D.Craven_0ne at 10-17-2013 08:45 AM]

D.Craven_0ne
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 201
Registered: 12-23-2012
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Done!
-and forget what i said about floor 3. If played from start to finish the hold works perfectly fine.
(though the control thingies can be pushed around. Not that it effects any rooms it's in.)

Might aswell share the demos, but be warned I'm not an optimizer.

Ps, to hold author.: If ya want me to take of the demos at some point just tell me.

____________________________
..and remember kids, don't fear war! In nuclear winter, everyday's a christmas!

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

Once again, thanks for all the feedback.

Shifting Passage - 3N6E
Wait, you did what? Wow, it's true, you can just barely do that. That wasn't the intended solution. The intended solution is a bit more evil. I think I'll make this room required, and one with the original solution a secret.

Floor I - 1W/1E
Well the key to both of these rooms (as well for many other ones really) is to exploit the swords limited turning ability, paired with the fact that if they can move closer, they will move closer. This can cause the swords to take paths that an unafraid goblin never would. That's all I say for now.

Floor II - 2N
To be totally honest, after my many replays of the hold, I found that I like this room the least. I still thinks it's a good puzzle, so I'll most likely be leaving it in. But man is it finicky.

Floor II - 2N1W
Another tough one, but I find this more doable. It's not easy, but after you beat it you'll feel you preformed an amazing feat.

Top of the Mountain - Secret
Well if you'd see the original version you'd probably faint. There were swords pretty much all along the thin wall, and you'd need to take a very specific route to succeed. For this version, if you approach it from the right direction it's possible to pass through without killing any.
I'm not sure how I could force the player to complete the room on the first pass through the way it's set up.

Floor III
Being able to push the crystals is unintentional. I swear I modified the script so that it's stationary. Not sure what happened there.
You are also correct that they won't work properly when jumping to them in the editor. For the control crystals to work properly a supporting global script needs to be set. Originally this script starts at the beginning of the hold. I moved the NPC that sets it to the entrance of Floor III for easier testing.

I'll shortly post a new version of the hold with slight changes/fixes. I'll attach it to my first post.

D.Craven_0ne
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 201
Registered: 12-23-2012
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I did a rerun from start.

Top of the Mountain
2N1E - New blue door does not open cos 3N1E is required.

That aside, the new stuff seems to work fine.

____________________________
..and remember kids, don't fear war! In nuclear winter, everyday's a christmas!

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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Gah! Haste makes waste. I uploaded a new version with the blue door fixed. After watching the demos of D.Craven_0ne I found two unintended solutions witch I hopefully managed to remedy.

D.Craven_0ne
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 201
Registered: 12-23-2012
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Here are the demos for the new/modified rooms that may be not
present/lost, in the last batch of demos due to compatibility.

I'm pretty sure i did, floor II - E1 wrong again. but i'm not sure what i'm supposed to do.

Otherwise the hold works.

____________________________
..and remember kids, don't fear war! In nuclear winter, everyday's a christmas!

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Floor 2-

1N: Hmm, seems too easy. Just lure sword out at right timing and then you can simply lead it in to kill the snake as long as the timing is exact. Then kill sword and roaches/queen.
1E: Fun room. Just needed to trap the sword in the tar.
note. nice job breaking the room by D. Craven!

1E2N: Must be broken. I stepped on the potion then ran back to the passage and could safely slaughter the swords.
1W2N: Managed to kill the swords quite rapidly with the fegundo.
1W1N: Fun room using ww to block sword.
1W: Pretty easy fighting skippers and swords.

1N1E: unsolved. looks like mucho fiddling around to get mr. snakey to eat all the swords.
2N: unsolved. Looks like a fun room where you must switch the order of the sword and roach.

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[Last edited by larrymurk at 10-17-2013 11:51 PM]

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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Floor II
1N - It's definitely the easiest room on the level. But having an easy room is ok I think. As long as the difficulty isn't too much out of place. Thoughts?

1E - Indeed you're supposed to use the tar to trap the sword. I think I managed to fix the unintended solution this time around. But that's what I thought the first time, so I'm not so sure anymore.

1E2N - What? Why would you do such a thing? You're missing out on all the fun! But seriously, that's pretty clever. I completely missed that possibility before. I'm fairly sure I managed to fix this one.

1W2N - That's the idea.
1W1N - Out of curiosity. Did you step on any of the trapdoors?
1W - Yup.

1N1E - Honestly I'm not that good at snake manipulation. But I usually don't have that much of a hard time getting the swords eaten. What I do have problems with is convincing Mr. Snakey to help me kill the eye.

2N - That's the idea, although it's easier said than done.

I'll wait a bit to see if anything else comes up. Than I'll post the new version with the two unintended solution fixes.

Edit: New version is up.

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[Last edited by RuAdam at 10-19-2013 09:06 AM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
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RuAdam wrote:
Floor II

1W1N - Out of curiosity. Did you step on any of the trapdoors?

Didn't need broken wall in top area.
Didn't need Southern alcove at all.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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larrymurk wrote:
...

Didn't need broken wall in top area.
Didn't need Southern alcove at all.

You didn't need the broken wall?
Teach me master!

But seriously, may I ask for a demo? I'm quite stumped on how you managed to pull that off.

D.Craven_0ne
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 201
Registered: 12-23-2012
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He could have used the path leading to the room above, after the ww is in position(9.8? - Maybe. Can't remember).

Anyway the tar room seems to be fixed, now.

____________________________
..and remember kids, don't fear war! In nuclear winter, everyday's a christmas!

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

That'll do it. It's a bit hard to think outside the box for your own puzzles.

I guess I'll switch than breakable wall for a trapdoor to include it in the challenge.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help again. I'll probably be submitting the hold soon-ish.

Edit: Submitted

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[Last edited by RuAdam at 10-21-2013 06:16 PM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
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I haven't gotten very far in this hold yet (still playing Floor I), but I'd like to comment that I think the conquer tokens in this hold are sometimes placed in boring positions: for instance, in Floor I 1S basically everyone is going to have a score of 12 moves because there's only one optimal path to the conquer token at the room's entrance. However, if the conquer token were at the room's exit, then scoring would matter since it would be tricky to beeline straight for the token while also making sure everything was dead.

The conquer tokens in Floor I 1W and 1S1E are pretty well placed.

There are some other examples of this kind of thing, too. It doesn't really take away from the value of the puzzles themselves, but it does make highscores less interesting.

(By the way, this is a really neat hold - I'm looking forward to the tougher puzzles with the hermit crabs.)

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

I never really used conquer tokens before, so I'm kind of confused here. What you're saying is that if you clear a room with a conquer token, your score will be determined by when you stepped on the token, and not when you cleared the room? If that's the case than I should definitely do something about that.

Also I'm glad you enjoyed the hold so far, but I'm afraid I have to disappoint you a little bit. Sadly you won't be seeing the crabs anymore. I kinda ran out of ideas/motivation, which is why I cut the hold a bit short. Rather than let it collect dust for a few more years.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
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RuAdam wrote:
What you're saying is that if you clear a room with a conquer token, your score will be determined by when you stepped on the token, and not when you cleared the room? If that's the case than I should definitely do something about that.

Yup, that's it exactly.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
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Did what I could with the conquer tokens.
It'd be nice to not need them in the first place, but oh well.