Angry Banana
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 12-10-2009
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I really liked this. Took me two playthroughs cause I made some bad choices but it was fun. Only got 90% though, I think I got all the hidden items so its probably just a breakable wall I didnt see.

3758/569/605/5/3/2

score=4923

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
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I have finished my changes.

A few changes made by you, the testers, were taken into consideration and acted upon.

Clearly, this update contains more than mere bug fixes and user suggestions.

Nay, this update contains more changes than I dare count! Probably the most prevalent is 5+ minutes of cutscenes added full of action and speech, all properly timed and tested.

Another addition is one of story. I'm thinking of making this hold a trilogy, with this hold being the second in the series.

One change I'm sure many of you are interested in is a complete reworking of speech, removing the more idiotic parts in my mind with more feasible story material.

Of course, some of the architecture itself has been changed as well. For example, reaching Cell Block C is quite a different challenge now. Also, reaching the final ring in Imperial Defense has been drastically changed.

My only wish is that all things I've done have only improved the hold, and didn't take away from it in any way.

The new version is in this post. Test well.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 08-21-2010 06:21 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Yay!

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3684
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

File: chaco_notes_jan23.txt (2.2 KB)
Downloaded 66 times.
License: Public Domain

I downloaded and replayed the hold from the beginning, up to the beginning of Cell Block B, where I quit playing because the Goblin Merchant didn't work properly and buying his stat boosts as early as possible was part of my overall strategy for continuing in the hold.

Here are some notes from my quick testing run, some of which I think are important, some of which I think are less important.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Please give us an anyone edit version. It makes testing so much easier. A bug though: Even though the doors are gone after you lure the guard through the pipe, he will still come and "open" the non-existing doors while you go from cellblock D to cellblock C.

Edit: Heh! I made it, so now I can edit. Some comments: I still can't find the warp-token. Both goblin merchants seems to go into infinite loops (the second merchant can't leave you). I see you have made the really big sword easier to aquire (just slay an aumtlich). Also: There's a skeleton key guarded by an aumtlich and a blue key. I suspect you meant for it to be the other way round. A skeleton key that is just guarded by an aumtlich, and the really big sword guarded by a blue door, some water, and an aumtlich Other than that: Good job! Not too dificult, not too easy. If you want to you can just remove the goblin merchants. They are not needed to complete the hold, and especially the second isn't really worth buying from.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 01-24-2010 04:03 PM]

deftriver
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 77
Registered: 07-11-2007
IP: Logged

I really like this hold, I haven't been able to complete it (the furthest I've gotten is Imperial Defense 3N4E). I kind of wish there were a small inventory, or someway to take the grappling hook with me into ID 3N4E. The monsters in this level get a lot tougher in relation to the others.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3684
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Finished the hold again! That was difficult, but I think at about the right level of challenge. Here's my ending statistics:


I'll have more extensive comments later, but suffice to say that this is a pretty good hold, but I think it could use some polish, and maybe the difficulty tweaked to be a bit easier on the final levels, but not so much the problems the player have to solve become trivial.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3684
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
I still can't find the warp-token.

The Warp Token is in Imperial Defense: Sence North, Sence East. It requires the Pickaxe to get to. Quince North, Sence East (the room directly to the south of it, with a passageway to the North blocked by just one wall) cannot be reached with one pickaxe. A possible solution might entail the player getting access to two where he currently gets one. Not sure how that would work in practice. It would require some more back and forth movement.

Anyway, this means that the entire accessory chain run (warp token -> portable orb -> speed potion) is now inaccessible. There's another possible use for the pickaxe in the new version, involving accessing a hidden room, so that's probably what the pickaxe "should" be used for now.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 01-26-2010 02:52 AM]

deftriver
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 77
Registered: 07-11-2007
IP: Logged

Oh yeah, I wish there were someway to completely avoid the aumtlich's rays, especially to be able to go back (ie okay to step in one way through but a way to kill them on the other side). I don't like giving up the health for it and I don't like leaving things under their rays.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

It is always possible to go back and forth without getting injured. You need to take some blows first, however.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 01-26-2010 06:43 AM]

deftriver
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 77
Registered: 07-11-2007
IP: Logged

I'm not finding that to be the case, at least without the grappling hook.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I left the grappling hook, and returned for it after having planted the flippers in the item-slot of the final level. Then I could go back and forth without taking any damage.

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
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I'm sorry I haven't been as attentive as I should have been regarding this stuff. In the next version, the room with the Warp Token has had its entry access replaced with water, letting the player use Flippers to get the accessory (and of course, there is an exit point that lets the player keep the accessory). Of course, this is assuming the player used the Pickaxe in the appropriate place to bypass the pit that forces the player to keep the Grappling Hook.

That reminds me... I should edit the speech after the player is forced to keep the Grappling Hook to account for the player skipping straight to breaking the wall with the Pickaxe.

Great input guys! I'm glad to see you're enjoying it enough while supporting creative critisicm!

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

The thing is you either need a Grappling Hook or a Pickaxe to exit Imperial Defense 3N4E to the east. But you also need a Grappling Hook or a Pickaxe to exit Imperial Defense 3N5E to the east. Thus you need two Pickaxes if you want to bring another item into the last area, and you still need the Warp Toke in order to get the Portable Orb, which is needed to open the door behind the slayer.

lordatog
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 51
Registered: 04-30-2009
IP: Logged

Where exactly is the epic boss, anyway? I have the speed potion and 100% secrets, but I still haven't found him.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Any news on this!

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
Any news on this!

Your wish has been granted.

This is the new version. Unless other severe bugs exists, this version should make the entire hold possible using any of the available techniques the hold provides (such as using the merchants).

A few things things have been changed. The most important of which is that the stat merchants work now! Yep. The first merchant grants the player 1 ATK and 2 DEF for every 1,000 greckles and 200 HP the player gives the merchant. The second merchant grants the player 3 ATK and 5 DEF for every 4,000 greckles and 650 HP the player gives the merchant. This process has no upper limit - as long as the player has at least 201/651 HP and 1,000/4,000 greckles, the player will be granted the additional stats. However, the merchant is quite busy and won't hang around when you have had your fill of his services. Both of them do that.

Unfortunately, other bugs that need to be fixed such as the Cell Block D guard and the Cell Block C entrance cutscenes. They will be fixed in the next version. Scratch that. The buggy guards should be un-buggy now.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 08-21-2010 06:21 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Still seems impossible to get to the last secrets (the one behind the slayer e.g.). Very nice with a new version, though, so thanks!

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-13-2010 09:15 AM]

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

OK. The accessory swap should be completable now. The new order is: *SPOILERS*
There is also a checkpoint that scores you and autosaves when you reach the seventh accessory in the swap.

I have fixed the really annoying, if not game-breaking error in Imperial Defense where the player loses their accessory item for the mirror-moving event that concludes the first half of Imperial Defense. The pressure plates in ID 3N 3E will open, not toggle the doors they reside against.

The flippers are now guarded by three brained rock giants. The greckle-gate path has been changed. The path now costs 8,191 greckles to pass through entirely, thanks to scripting and exponential increase. Try it out, it's fun.

Other changes exist, but I've probably forgotten them. New version in this post.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 08-21-2010 06:22 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I might have missed something, but I still don't understand. In Imperial Defense 3N4E you need to break a wall in order to get back and forth without using the grappling hook. In 3N5E you need to break a wall in order to get back and forth whatsoever. You can use either the grappling hook, or a wall walk to enter, but then you can't return. However you need to be able to pass back through those rooms carriyng a warp token, and thus the walls needs to be broken by a pick axe in both of those rooms, but there only are one pickaxe available. Am I missing something? In that case what?


Edit: Also: One more time. It's quite easy to obtain the Very Big Sword. In fact most people with a good memory will get it before the hook. I remember that in an earlier version the Very Big Sword was located in 1S3E, forcing you to get the flippers before you could get the sword, and the skeleton key was located in 1S, were the sword now lies. Do you want me to be able to get the Very Big Sword just by killing an aumtlich?

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-14-2010 07:11 AM]

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
I might have missed something, but I still don't understand. In Imperial Defense 3N4E you need to break a wall in order to get back and forth without using the grappling hook. In 3N5E you need to break a wall in order to get back and forth whatsoever. You can use either the grappling hook, or a wall walk to enter, but then you can't return. However you need to be able to pass back through those rooms carriyng a warp token, and thus the walls needs to be broken by a pick axe in both of those rooms, but there only are one pickaxe available. Am I missing something? In that case what?

Yeah, you're right. I forgot about that. The new version includes a tunnel that bypasses the room when it is complete.

Edit: Also: One more time. It's quite easy to obtain the Very Big Sword. In fact most people with a good memory will get it before the hook. I remember that in an earlier version the Very Big Sword was located in 1S3E, forcing you to get the flippers before you could get the sword, and the skeleton key was located in 1S, were the sword now lies. Do you want me to be able to get the Very Big Sword just by killing an aumtlich?

Alas, no. The really big sword is back behind the water and the blue door and the aumtlich again. The skeleton key rests behind the aumtlich with no other protection.

For this reason, the Oremite Shield has also been moved. Though still in Cell Block B, it is now guarded by an Azure Warder and needs the grappling hook to access. You are probably going to need the Really Big Sword and the Knight Shield to beat the guard.

New version in the post above Blondbeard's.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

That seems like really good changes! I'll try to play it through now.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Hmm... Turns out your solution wasn't so great after all. You can use the tunnel you introduced to bypass the cell-keeper and save two blue keys. You need to make a door blocking the tunnel, which opens once you've defeted the cell-keeper. Also the Obsidian Statues in Cell Block B 2S2W have a quirk. They don't halve your lives if you hit them. Then nothing happens, since you can't hurt them, and they can't hurt you.

About the hold: It is hard! Very hard. I don't even think it's possible to obtain the flippers by killing the giants, which makes the hold almost impossible if you use the merchant early on.

Edit: And done! I must admit I used the Statues bug, if it is a bug. But I did pretend I couldn't sneak past the cell-keeper and save two keys. That one you must fix. I did manage to get the last secret, but I never used either the wall-walk or the invisibility-potion. I used both the merchants, but only after I had bought the flippers. The dialog in Imperial Defense 3N5E is wrong if you've used the pick-axe to bypass the deadend. I got giants starting speaking after I had killed them, for example. Oh, and it's impossible to get to 1N7E, since you have to leave the flippers in order to get the portable orb (it would be impossible anyway. I sugest you remove that secret).

Very nice hold! As it is now it would get a 9 for fun-raiting (with the short-cut in 3N4E fixed so you can't sneak by the cell keeper), but I think it would be fair to warn the player by the first merchant not to bye just yet.


Double-edit: Ah, I see now where your accessory-loop is broken. You don't need the wall walk to get the pick-axe. You can just as well use the flippers, which is a good thing. I think the hold would be too hard to complete using the accessory-swap otherwise. Perhaps you could just add a new secret where you have to use the wall-walk? Or perhaps you could just delete the room with the wall-walk. A nice touch would be if you could use the wall-walk to get to the secret in 3N2W (perhaps you could just change the wall-walk for another pick-axe), and you could add some more healing potions in the room. Oh, and an invissibility-potion is much better for the final boss than a speed-potion.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-15-2010 02:17 PM]

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

The guard in Cell Block D in 3N:2E will keep coming back and hitting the orb 3 times every time you enter the room, even after the doors have gone.

ijack7
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 09-20-2008
IP: Logged

I finished the latest version after much effort. I liked the hold very much. I found it to be one of the hardest drod:rpg holds that I have done and I have done quite a few. I did not use either merchant because the cost seemed too high. Nor did I use or even try to get the invisibility potion or the wall walk accessory. There are still a couple of dialog inaccuracies as others have mentioned. Overall an excellent effort and I look forward to the rest of your story lines if you choose to do them.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

It's almost silly how close this hold is to completion without being completed. Would you like me, or someone else, to complete it for you? (If I completed it I would probably just cut out some parts of the accesory loop, those that aren't working now).

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
It's almost silly how close this hold is to completion without being completed. Would you like me, or someone else, to complete it for you? (If I completed it I would probably just cut out some parts of the accesory loop, those that aren't working now).

No. I am just about finished with the hold. A few things have been changed. Some bugs have been fixed. I'll post the version sometime today.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Yay!

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

OK everybody! I have the new version! I have added a bit more content. Not a lot, just some. In addition, the accessory chain should be better now. The direct chain should be:

with a minor chain (Lucky Greckle > Pickaxe) that allows the major chain to take place. Both chains expect the player to have access to the Grappling Hook and Flippers throughout everything. With both chains and the two additional accessories, every single accessory is somehow utilized in the accessory chain! Complicated? Yes.

Another major change is the addition of a secret boss stronger than 23rd Jailor who can be beat only with good optimization and the Invisibility potion! Also, using the $variables$ for ending text, I have made two separate endings for which hold-exit stair you used. The normal ending stair leads to a normal albeit dull ending. The secret ending stair leads to text that has to do with secret information, none that pertains directly to the stalwart in the game.

I haven't yet fixed the guard in Cell Block D in 3N:2E. I don't know exactly how the problem can be replicated. That will be fixed in the next version. At that point, unless there are any other problems, I shall submit it to the HA for approval!

Enjoy!

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 08-21-2010 06:22 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

For starters: You still can't get to the secret room in Imperial Defense 1N6E.

Why would I need the lucky greckle, and how do I get it?

What triggers the black door in Imperial Defense 5N2E to open?

Why wouldn't you just use the hand bomb on the final boss?

You will probably not have the correct answer for the door att Cell Block D available to players who haven't defeated the mud mother, and already heard the answer. It is also a bit buggy to enter the passage if you've already opened the door, since the cut scene plays out even though there are no doors to open.

Importent error! In Cell Block C 1N1W you have changed the characters from Revolting mimic to citizen 1. Since you can't kill the guy the shield and the gems are unobtainable... This is were I stop playing, until this is fixed.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-20-2010 06:07 AM]