Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

This game is pretty complicated, so I will spell out the rules here. You probably will want to come back to these rules while playing, so you might want to keep this window open. edit: now that there is a tutorial, you probably won't need to read the rules.

RULES:


I think that is pretty much it! If anyone has questions, please ask.

Suggestions or ideas are also welcome!

Enjoy!

EDIT: retyped the pic part

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[Last edited by Jason at 07-05-2007 09:42 AM]

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
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File: The Mining Business.hold (106.1 KB)
Downloaded 85 times.
License: Public Domain

And here is the hold!

Final Version!

4 Levels and 3 Tutorial Levels!



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[Last edited by Jason at 07-21-2007 03:12 PM]

Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
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Wicked idea, and 'I don't even dare to look at the scripting...
anyway, here's some feedback:
The amount of things Halph can carry is not consistent. If I first collect 3 fruits, for example, he can also collect three metals before having to go back.
You forgot a mud blob(I realized which building it is, as it's the only one left, but some people might not).
I have no idea why, but it happened to me that the builders destroyed the gate, I don't know how long after building it.
You only get a new Stalwart after the old one moves. And I didn't ecperience it yet, but I suspect that the old one would immediately be killed by the new one's sword, if it moves north.

Anyway: Great job.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

The old stalwart is indeed killed by the new stalwart.

I have not figured out what to do with the food in order to stop being hungry yet. I tried going through the money converter but it did nothing. The upgrade building also does nothing.

Also, not having enough money to pay for upgrades does not keep you from actually getting the upgrades. Your money amount merely goes negative.

The Halph/Aumtlich swapper can get really messed up if some monster (say, one of those pesky goblins that's difficult for the Stalwart to kill) hits the unused pressure plate.

It would be nice to include costs for all upgrades, not just the Personal Defender upgrade.

Another thing that would be nice would be an "inventory bar" so you can see what the miner is "carrying" at any point.

Putting the instructions of this post in the hold somehow (possibly in an introduction level before starting the game) would be convenient.

Overall, nice job. I knew from the moment I saw player roles and variables that it would become much easier to do games that don't necessarily involve killing monsters inside DROD, and this one delivers.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-24-2007 12:03 AM]

Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

To eat, you have to go in the small "alcove" to the SE of your complex.

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Thanks for the feedback, I think I fixed everything! Update in 1st post.

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Great going, Jason! I think you've fixed everything.

A few other things I think might be nice:

Putting identification scrolls in front of all buildings (not just the miner/warrior swapper) would be a convenience to the player.

I waited to see whether the guard/vulnerable Halph combo would work or not if you ran out of food. Turns out, due to movement order, the guard appears first, then the Halph tries to appear on the sword and can't. I think you need to make the Halph move first in the movement order before that will work, otherwise there's no point in gathering food.

Since there are a limited number of Stalwarts available for purchase (12) I think it would be a good idea to indicate to the player that this upgrade can only be bought a certain number of times.

I hate to nitpick, but there's still no in-game explanation of what exactly you're supposed to do, along with a boring default entrance text.

Finally, there is no way to end this hold currently. I propose that gathering all metals in the world (not necessarily all food) either ends the hold or goes to the next level. The next world could have different metal/food placement, different enemies spawning, and perhaps even different upgrades to purchase.

In fact, I'll probably start working on a different "world" to show what I'm talking about.

EDIT:

Actually, in order to do that, you'd have to release the custom tile graphics you used for your hold into the public domain or we wouldn't be able to use them in our own holds.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-24-2007 03:10 PM]

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

File: pics.zip (10 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Creative Commons

Here are the graphics. Hold update coming soon.

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Monkey
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 190
Registered: 03-21-2006
IP: Logged

Oh, BTW...
Was the topic name supposed to be a bad pun?

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lurking

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

File: Game World Example.hold (22 KB)
Downloaded 71 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's my world.

-There are scrolls added to the buildings.
-The world now has obstacles and explicit boundaries and monster spawn locations.
-Starvation now works properly.
-There is a warning before monsters arrive.
-Monster spawns now more interesting.
-You can now build two hot-tile traps at the complex entrance.
-You can now purchase mimics.
-Code cleaned up a bit.

I have not coded in any sort of level advancement, but it would be a simple matter to wait for no NPCs in the entire gameplay area (not the complex) and then go to another level entrance. As a result, this hold cannot currently be ended, and you may consider the room beaten when you have mined all metals and all monsters are defeated.

I am officially giving permission for anyone to use this hold and the room therein in any sort of Miner Game compilation, world set, or other hold as long as they acknowledge that I was the creator of that content.

Thanks for the idea and the graphics, Jason!

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-25-2007 01:41 AM]

tokyokid
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 453
Registered: 05-06-2006
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This is a great game! I totally loved playing it! Though I do like Chaco's version better (better looking, and smooth), I thank Jason for making it.

I loved all the items, though the 'bridge' wasn't too useful. Also the mimics weren't too hot either. They ended up getting in the way. The Stalwarts were excellently useful.

It ran totally smoothly, but towards the end (after the slayers appeared), there were no more monsters. I made Halph pick up the rest of the gold stuff, and food. I was dissapionted that there was no... ending, of sorts.

THe monsters were easy to kill, and I was surprised the Slayers were easy too! In the next version, it would be nice if there were an ending, or more monsters.

Thanks for a fun time, guys!

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

On turn 1250, a final wave of monsters appears. You might have just cleaned up quickly after the Slayers.

True, the Slayers are actually pretty easy - even in your Aumtlich form you just have to wait for them to move next to you.

I used the mimics because they don't die as easily and they also are directly controlled by you.

Anyway, I'm probably not going to do any more work on this unless I'm asked to by Jason or otherwise prodded into doing a compilation of the two worlds and any future worlds.

I'd like to encourage everybody to make more worlds; it's not actually that difficult if you understand what the variables are doing and how the scripts work.

____________________________
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vinheim
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 300
Registered: 05-31-2007
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Chaco wrote:
I'd like to encourage everybody to make more worlds; it's not actually that difficult if you understand what the variables are doing and how the scripts work.

well i do understand it now and have only just realized that the tar babies were your hunger meter, guess i'll make a volcano world featuring hot tiles, tar babies, maybe serpents but that takes away the whole "kill everything by stepping on it with your aumtlich as then halph would be able to kil it", and you cant script serpent characters, (although i could make them in the room initially but behind yellow doors that open after a certain turn..hmm), guess i'll start working on a volcano world then

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[Last edited by vinheim at 06-25-2007 06:27 PM]

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
Anyway, I'm probably not going to do any more work on this unless I'm asked to by Jason or otherwise prodded into doing a compilation of the two worlds and any future worlds.

I'm already working on a complilation thing. If anyone wants to submit a level, that's fine, but please keep all of the set boundaries unless you ask and I say that it's fine. You also have to give me rights to use it in a complilation and maybe submit it to the holds board.

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Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
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At the top is a new version with chaco and my hold together, along with a thorough tutorial in three parts:

Basics
Fighting and Further Upgrades
Hunger

I also added a small story.

Please test and comment!

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Alright, with news of this I played through.

The story, as well as the tutorials, were very well made. Unfortunately, you've just now experienced a problem I have also experienced - due to the fact that the coin display flushes speech, it can be impossible to hear the instructor if you make too many moves.

So, I went to the first world. The coin display there did not work - it did not say anything. The speech was probably getting flushed before it could say anything. However, the mission did end properly after I collected enough coins.

...and when I exited, I was still Halph, so I was unable to kill the brain. Player Role Beethro is probably needed in all entrance/exit rooms.

EDIT:

After taking a look at this hold, I think I know what the problem is.

Since all variables are global to the entire hold, we need to re-set all variables to their initial values (0, or "yes" in the case of the miner) at the beginning of the level. This would also fix the display error in my level and the fact that my "x stalwarts remaining out of 12" counter is messed up.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-27-2007 06:27 PM]

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
Alright, with news of this I played through.

The story, as well as the tutorials, were very well made. Unfortunately, you've just now experienced a problem I have also experienced - due to the fact that the coin display flushes speech, it can be impossible to hear the instructor if you make too many moves.

I'm glad you liked them! Yeah, I knew about the speech problem. I just added a scroll telling the player to move slowly, and to double-click on the portrait if needed.

So, I went to the first world. The coin display there did not work - it did not say anything. The speech was probably getting flushed before it could say anything. However, the mission did end properly after I collected enough coins.

...and when I exited, I was still Halph, so I was unable to kill the brain. Player Role Beethro is probably needed in all entrance/exit rooms.

Oops! Silly mistake, but fixed.

EDIT:

After taking a look at this hold, I think I know what the problem is.

Since all variables are global to the entire hold, we need to re-set all variables to their initial values (0, or "yes" in the case of the miner) at the beginning of the level. This would also fix the display error in my level and the fact that my "x stalwarts remaining out of 12" counter is messed up.

I added that and also rechecked your level's code. It turns out that when I copied your level into my hold, it didn't bring the variables needed. I also fixed that problem, so it should all work now! Thanks again, Chaco!

Hold in First Post!

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Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

There's something obviously wrong about this latest version...

The stairs from what should(apparently) be the third mission took me to the first mission and after finishing it again, I got brought back to the first crossroads, but couldn't go to the second mission again because the script activating the orb didn't start again.

Also, variables(such as hunger) should be reset every mission.

And once when I pressed R, I somehow got thrown into the builders pen, with the other character. Don't ask me how it happened...

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Dex Stewart wrote:
There's something obviously wrong about this latest version...

The stairs from what should(apparently) be the third mission took me to the first mission and after finishing it again, I got brought back to the first crossroads, but couldn't go to the second mission again because the script activating the orb didn't start again.

That's because there is no third mission yet!

Also, variables(such as hunger) should be reset every mission.

Done!

And once when I pressed R, I somehow got thrown into the builders pen, with the other character. Don't ask me how it happened...

uhhh... I don't think that is a problem with the hold, but with the game itself.

Thanks! Fixed and hold in first post.

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Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

By the way, it might be a good idea to let the player buy the monster indicator that Chaco put in his mission, instead of giving it to him from the start/not giving it to him at all.

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

On top is the newest version with bugs fixed and 3rd level made. I will be away for the weekend, so don't expect answers until monday afternoon. I'm so glad everyone likes this game!

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Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

In the first mission, if I buy the extra money thing, and the gate, and then press undo while passing the upgrade place, the game crashes.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5058
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Ezlo wrote:
In the first mission, if I buy the extra money thing, and the gate, and then press undo while passing the upgrade place, the game crashes.

This wouldn't be Jason's fault, of course. There's a bug that would need fixing in DROD, if it hasn't already been fixed in 3.0.2.

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Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Version 2.0 is made! Last level has been made, with another new objective. This is probably the last one. Please test and I might submit it to the holds board.

Note: Try not the hit undo in the upgrades center. There is some weird bug that transports you to a random place on the board, sometimes right into enemies.

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

I've only just noticed this now - in High Path: Once North, the Imperial pressure-plate operator says "Please Procede" when he should say "Please Proceed."

Anyway, I'll try out the fourth level and then offer some comments about it.

I do hope, however, that the fact that this hold will be released soon will not stop people from making more mines for this game.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
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the fourth level is insanely difficult, imho
were I the author, I'd hope for a couple levels to insert between three and four to make up the jump from "easy" to "insane".


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Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged

I agree.
I cannot complete the fourth level.

jdyer
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 329
Registered: 03-19-2003
IP: Logged

Chaco already pointed out Procede needing to be Proceed.

There's also "complexe" in the text intro to the first tutorial part.

I finally should mention that there's about a full 30 turns before the person at the main desk stops talking and the game asks if you've played before. (You are stuck in place with the cinematic through this 30 turns.)

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

The fourth level is indeed really, really difficult, however I managed to complete it. The key is that you need to buy stalwarts as soon as possible, because of the roach queens. Unfortunately, you need two full runs in order to do this, during which two or more spawns will be made. The first run is manageable because the enemy miners kill roaches until there are only two, but the second run requires a lot of finegling until they're split up conveniently and killable with the Aumtlich.

Once you have a Stalwart killing off the brained-roach spawn, the level becomes easier.

I agree that both mission 3 and mission 4 have very difficult starts, though.

In the second mission (the one I made), the upgrade building has no red line image floor like it did in the previous missions.

Anyway, although the hold only has four missions, this is, in fact, a completely new game that happens to be running in the DROD engine.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Chaco and jdyer: Fixed. Jdyer, what's the problem with 30 turns passing?

silver and dex stewart: Do you have any ideas for a "medium" difficulty level in between 3 and 4? Also, after chaco's hints, was it easier?

Thanks.

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