Chris
Level: Master Delver
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Do you mean the shortest possible game from the start? Or from the current situation?

If you mean the 2nd, then the answer is very likely to change every 2 hours...

Ezlo
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From the start.

Chris
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Ezlo wrote:
From the start.

I tried running random simulations over and over and looking for the shortest path to a win, but the shortest I found after several thousands simulations was around 500 moves long.

I suspect this is because randomly moving snakes tend to die younger than snakes under human control, and so random games go on for longer.

Starting with the current position of the snakepit, I found a way that bflatjeff can win on turn 345, so that's the shortest game I've found so far. I would be very surprised if that is the shortest possible, however.

I imagine that a full search for the shortest game would take a very long time to complete.

Beef Row
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Chris wrote:
Starting with the current position of the snakepit, I found a way that bflatjeff can win on turn 345, so that's the shortest game I've found so far. I would be very surprised if that is the shortest possible, however.

Heh, does this way involve hanging around outside while the center systematically suicides by excessive numbers of snakes?

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Chris
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That's exactly what it involves.

I did make a mistake previously however: bflatjeff is 2nd, and Syril Ram wins. Note that they're both in the large-ish bottom left area however.

Chris
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I made an animation showing the first 200 or so moves in the current snake pit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvSWW3oHRXU

There's a bigger, less fuzzy version available for download at:

http://dooglus.rincevent.net/snakes/video/200.ogg

if your video player supports .ogg format videos.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Nifty. It really helps to show in what order things happened, including deaths.

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bflatjeff
Level: Delver
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Oh my gosh. I go away for a day and coming back I find that people are simulating my victory?
Well, I hope I can make it happen.
Sorry, Stephen4Louise, I thought it in my best interests to make the move that kills you. I thought I might get Syril Ram by it, too, but he chose not to coil and may be heading elsewhere.

____________________________
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- Beethro Bonekin

Chris
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Chaco wrote:
Nifty. It really helps to show in what order things happened, including deaths.

This one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW0iMvT-Mw8

has text that's big enough to read (and includes today's moves, too).

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Wow, uh, thanks.

One complaint: now it takes four minutes. It's better than actually playing, but it seems a bit... slow. Just a little bit. But the move number and the readable text are big, big improvements that I like a lot.

[/playing the critic]

____________________________
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Chris
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I can make it faster, but the problem then is that the screen capture software which I use to make the videos ('istanbul') starts missing some frames. Not that that's a big deal I guess - it just means that sometimes the snakes make 2 moves at once.

How long would you like 200 moves to take? It's no trouble to change the speed if you don't mind missed frames.

McFrugal
Level: Delver

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Looks like Rabscuttle is getting forced out of the center. Trick's gonna have company on turn #227. Also, Rabscuttle's entrance path is the only unblocked way into the center from that area. His entry will block any hopes of using that way again, so now there is no choice. Both snakes must make their way south, and fight over the entrance(s?) there.

Syril Ram
Level: Goblin
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Registered: 12-19-2005
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bflatjeff wrote:
Oh my gosh. I go away for a day and coming back I find that people are simulating my victory?
Well, I hope I can make it happen.
Sorry, Stephen4Louise, I thought it in my best interests to make the move that kills you. I thought I might get Syril Ram by it, too, but he chose not to coil and may be heading elsewhere.

That was close. I've been trying to get out of there for awhile and if you wouldn't have made that turn and instead jumped through I would have been stuck. It might be a good place to hang around for awhile though. I've got some other plans. Congrats on the assassination.

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[Last edited by Syril Ram at 09-05-2006 09:13 AM]

Rabscuttle
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McFrugal wrote:
Looks like Rabscuttle is getting forced out of the center. Trick's gonna have company on turn #227. Also, Rabscuttle's entrance path is the only unblocked way into the center from that area. His entry will block any hopes of using that way again, so now there is no choice. Both snakes must make their way south, and fight over the entrance(s?) there.

Forced? Pshaw! The centre is becoming too crowded.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Ostegolectr1c
Level: Master Delver
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I was forced out of the center too. I think it's for good.

____________________________
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NiroZ
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Chris wrote:
I can make it faster, but the problem then is that the screen capture software which I use to make the videos ('istanbul') starts missing some frames. Not that that's a big deal I guess - it just means that sometimes the snakes make 2 moves at once.

How long would you like 200 moves to take? It's no trouble to change the speed if you don't mind missed frames.

You can allways use Camstudio, which happens to be opensource.

Also, you could try speeding ip up in video editing software.

Chris
Level: Master Delver
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NiroZ wrote
You can allways use Camstudio, which happens to be opensource.

Not quite always - only if you've bought Microsoft's "Windows" operating system and it still works, which isn't the case for me.

Do you know of anything suitable for Linux?

McFrugal
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Ostegolectr1c wrote:
I was forced out of the center too. I think it's for good.

You might be able to get back from one of the Eastern chambers. It really on hinges on wether or not all the entrances get blocked by then. The chamber you're heading into *can* be exited to the South. After that you have quite a few choices.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Chris wrote:
I can make it faster, but the problem then is that the screen capture software which I use to make the videos ('istanbul') starts missing some frames. Not that that's a big deal I guess - it just means that sometimes the snakes make 2 moves at once.

How long would you like 200 moves to take? It's no trouble to change the speed if you don't mind missed frames.

Well, alright - how about one third of a second per frame? Is that too fast?

Sorry to be a bother, really. If it helps, I found this article on how to make MPEGS out of images in Linux.

____________________________
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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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Well, I'm dead. I'm currently predicting my death for turn 239, which looks like it will put me in at 28th place. -ish.

I believe that the snake most recently responsible for my path to oblivion is also doomed, but not until turn 266, and it's always possible that someone will save him. So he doesn't get an official spot on the Dead Snake list yet, not until I'm sure it's irreversible.

Like, sadly, my position.

There are probably other doomed snakes out there that I haven't seen. Feel free to point them out on the Dead Snakes thread, which I will continue to update posthumously. Entirely out of the goodness of my heart. My cold, reptilian heart.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

---

[Last edited by jbluestein at 09-05-2006 04:46 PM]

jbluestein
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jbluestein wrote:
I believe that the snake most recently responsible for my path to oblivion is also doomed, but not until turn 266, and it's always possible that someone will save him. So he doesn't get an official spot on the Dead Snake list yet, not until I'm sure it's irreversible.

I take it back. Jason isn't doomed, at least not as far as I can tell. Rabscuttle, however, is doomed. Dead on turn 246.





____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Chris
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jbluestein wrote:
Rabscuttle, however, is doomed. Dead on turn 246.

No, he can escape.

In fact, I can't see any way he can die on turn 246. Are you looking at the right snake?

---

[Last edited by Chris at 09-05-2006 08:37 PM]

jbluestein
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Chris wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
Rabscuttle, however, is doomed. Dead on turn 246.

No, he can escape.

Well, he can certainly jump backwards from the immediate threat that awaits him in five turns. However, unless I miss something, he's going to be forced south then north and will end up at (63, 22) with Jason's head directly south of him and nowhere safe to jump in any other direction.

This is a way off -- 24 more turns, by my count.

I don't see any way for him to escape from this, or for anyone else to do anything other than shorten his path (which costs him a turn).

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

eytanz
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jbluestein wrote:

Chris wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
Rabscuttle, however, is doomed. Dead on turn 246.

No, he can escape.

Well, he can certainly jump backwards from the immediate threat that awaits him in five turns.

He most certainly cannot. He can do nothing but jump forward.



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jbluestein
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eytanz wrote:

jbluestein wrote:

Chris wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
Rabscuttle, however, is doomed. Dead on turn 246.

No, he can escape.

Well, he can certainly jump backwards from the immediate threat that awaits him in five turns.

He most certainly cannot. He can do nothing but jump forward.

And that's what I was missing. Whoops!

Sorry.

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

jbluestein
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In that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jason dies on turn 268. Someone is going into that trap at the top, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Someone Else.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Yes, I think jbluestein's missing the fact that Rabscuttle can jump forward into the top-left area. There he'll be in a great position. Speaking of which, I can't believe Watcher bumped. A long way back I was under the impression that he and I had the same idea about the exit Rabscuttle's heading for, and that he won that battle. Apparently it was coincidence. I can see how he may be hoping to have a relatively large area for himself, but it's not large enough. It could also be that I'm completely misjudging the situation.

EDIT: Collision. Yes, Jason will be extremely lucky if someone saves him.

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[Last edited by michthro at 09-05-2006 09:11 PM]

Chris
Level: Master Delver
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jbluestein wrote:
In that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jason dies on turn 268. Someone is going into that trap at the top, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Someone Else.

Josh

It's not Someone Else - he's already in his coffin, and isn't going anywhere else.

It could be tyrion however. He can sacrifice himself to let Jason survive, and I don't think he's the only one who can.

jbluestein
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Chris wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
In that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jason dies on turn 268. Someone is going into that trap at the top, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Someone Else.

Josh

It's not Someone Else - he's already in his coffin, and isn't going anywhere else.

It could be tyrion however. He can sacrifice himself to let Jason survive, and I don't think he's the only one who can.

I don't doubt that there are people who can save Jason. I'm not sure anyone will, though.

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

tyrion
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 28
Registered: 02-26-2006
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Er, just realized... I think I made a huge mistake. Oh well, I'll be without internet access soon anyway, so now I'll probably get to see my snake's death.

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[Last edited by tyrion at 09-06-2006 02:30 AM]