RoboBob3000
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File: Compass Point.hold (243 KB)
Downloaded 61 times.
License: Public Domain

It's been a while, but I've again taken a stab at creating rooms the normal way, with monster smiting and all.

This is a very short six-room hold, based on movement restriction and manipulation puzzles. Nothing terribly inspired or mind-boggingly difficult, but it does try out what I believe to be a new gimmick.

Feedback would be appreciated, particularly because I intend on releasing this along with my other two architecture-only holds as a small compilation in the future. Thanks, guys!

Edit: Fixed version attached.
Edit: One more quick improvement, thanks in part to the brilliance of TripleM.
Yet Another Edit: Sorry, one more bug in the final room. Should be cleared up now.

Edit: Holds board worthy version attached? That's up to you to decide.

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 02-03-2007 10:47 PM]

Kevin_P86
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Very cool! The rattlesnake / slayer one took me a few tries - the stupid rattlesnake kept getting itself stuck near the top.

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TripleM
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I have a feeling Kevin may have missed half of the point Although by itself it was still a fun bunch of levels.


Very cool.

RoboBob3000
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Right. There was an unintended solution to the final room, which kinda messed up the point of the whole hold. A new version is up.

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RoboBob3000
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And one more quick update thanks to another tip from TripleM. Better to get the updating done early, I say.

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RoboBob3000
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And I apologize once again to the two people who just downloaded. Another bug in the final room cleared up. And I thought it had been foolproof too...

Oh well, such is the testing process.

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Citrus
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Okay, I've gotten to the last room, I've figured out what I need to do, but how do I do it?

EDIT: Nevermind, got it.

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[Last edited by Ezlo at 07-25-2006 12:47 PM]

Chaco
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Santa Hunt 2008 Puzzle

It's a Cold One!
by RoboBob3000

Man, it's chilly out there today! The weatherman says it's just cold enough to snow. Be sure to dress warm. You don't want to wind up frozen solid!

3675
-189.19
-219.52
-209.86
-219.52
1278

180.7
44.1
650
1278

(Original post follows)

My thoughts:

The Entrance was a very nice starting puzzle, though I was able to get away with turning my sword a couple times if I was efficient about it.

Once South was confusing, until I figured out how to start your handicap system. Then it was easy.

Twice South was also rather nice. Took a few tries to figure out how to escape the bombs.

Thrice South - Hang on! I thought the frigid cold kept us from turning around! Anyway, I did this room by killing the three guards, then simply striking the orb and killing the brains myself.

Quarce South - This wasn't easy. I concentrated on staying in the rattlesnake's view so it couldn't get stuck up top, then cutting it several times on the bottom with the Slayer's help.

Quince South - Ack. Was I supposed to have done this backwards?

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-22-2008 07:45 PM]

Citrus
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Yep.

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Kevin_P86
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
Right. There was an unintended solution to the final room, which kinda messed up the point of the whole hold. A new version is up.

Is the point to do each of the rooms with your sword North rather than South? If that is the case (as I assume it is), I cannot figure out how to get my sword North - I am two moves short from beating the first room while turning my sword four times, and after that point you can never turn it around...

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RoboBob3000
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It is possible to exit the first room facing north with no moves remaining.



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Kevin_P86
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Wow - is that ever harder like that! I managed the roach queen room, but failed a number of times on the goblin / serpent room...!

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bandit1200
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I can manage to face north, but I can't do any of the other rooms. Well, I can beat the last two, but obviously that's in the editor. In the other two rooms, I can kill two roaches and one guard, and that's it for me.

Doom
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There are no checkpoints. You don't want to repeat the mistake Fool's Errand made. (link)

I was thinking that the concept was extremely annoying at first, because getting to the end normally doesn't reward the player at all. It's just a cold hard "Ha! Do it all again!". Then I looked at the rooms - They're mostly pretty easy normally, so it wouldn't be a big amount of wasted effort. Still, I think that someone who struggled with the rooms 'the wrong way' wouldn't be pleased with the last one at all. Maybe annoyed enough to put the hold away completely.

That's what I think, anyway. Good job with it otherwise.

TripleM
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Doom wrote:
I was thinking that the concept was extremely annoying at first, because getting to the end normally doesn't reward the player at all. It's just a cold hard "Ha! Do it all again!". Then I looked at the rooms - They're mostly pretty easy normally, so it wouldn't be a big amount of wasted effort. Still, I think that someone who struggled with the rooms 'the wrong way' wouldn't be pleased with the last one at all. Maybe annoyed enough to put the hold away completely.

That's what I think, anyway. Good job with it otherwise.

Think about it like this:
Its a two level hold. The first level forces you to do it forwards, the second level forces you to do it backwards. I don't think people can get annoyed with that I think that was the main idea. Adding stairs and just copying over all the rooms would just spoil it slightly.

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[Last edited by TripleM at 07-25-2006 11:35 PM]

Chaco
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Alright, just reconquered the rooms. I kinda like how the rooms were possible but played differently when facing north or south.

My problem with this is that, if you face south, you are absolutely stuck at the end. You have to restore after that. It's nifty, but I think that kinda breaks it.

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RoboBob3000
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I've added checkpoints, but I'll hold off on uploading it for the time being.

I didn't anticipate the gimmick being so annoying, but now I can see why it would be. However, TripleM is right in that playing through twice is my intent for the hold. Think of it like The Choice, for those of you who have played that.

The final room was the first room constructed, and I really see it as the puzzle of the hold. The first room is designed to funnel the player through the first time facing south in order to achieve maximum efficiency, which of course, forces a second playthrough. Some inspiration for this was taken from a particular hold which will not be named.

Playing though while facing south isn't neccessarly worthless. I imagine high-scorable solutions might almost all involve facing south, with the possible exception of the rattlesnake room.

Unfortunately, doing something like turning the hold into two levels or placing stairs to return to the start wouldn't really match my vision of the hold, so annoying as it may be, I'm going to keep it the same way. I appreciate your comments, though.

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 07-26-2006 12:36 AM]

Hikari
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So... wait, playing through twice is your intent, but you don't have any way of enforcing that other than 'restore'? Assuming you plan on giving this an official release on the Holds board, how're you going to make sure people *do* play through twice if there's no way of forcing it in order to complete the hold?

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RoboBob3000
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Well, the only way I have to do that is to fool players into playing it the wrong way first (which doesn't allow for hold completion), forcing them to go back and play it through the right way. If they play through it correctly on their first try (which seems much more likely now, given the discussion in this topic), then that means they've played through the rooms the "better" way, and I suppose I won't be too upset about that.

I suppose I could find a way to allow a southern-facing pass to grant you access to a secret room, and perhaps place a master wall at the north exit of the entrance which leads to... something. I'll give it some thought.

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Doom
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TripleM wrote:
Think about it like this:
Its a two level hold. The first level forces you to do it forwards, the second level forces you to do it backwards. I don't think people can get annoyed with that I think that was the main idea. Adding stairs and just copying over all the rooms would just spoil it slightly.

Of course. If I would do something about it, it's definitely not copying the level.

I thought about something like a secret room, but then, if you don't do it the wrong way, it would almost force you to do it in the end again if you did it the right way first, which probably shouldn't be necessary. Maybe you could reach it both ways... I think that would be still at least a little better than the current final room.

By the way,

If they play through it correctly on their first try (which seems much more likely now, given the discussion in this topic)

Not everyone who plays it has read this topic. Not even close. Compare architecture board download numbers with the ones by the uploaded holds sometimes. And add a few people who read these, but don't play the wip-versions.

(edit) Adding a final note: It could be a lot worse, so it's perfectly fine with me if you leave it as it is...

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[Last edited by Doom at 07-26-2006 01:59 PM]

larrymurk
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I played both ways and I'd say:

1. The hold looks cool, especially on the mini-map.
2. The rooms were perfectally fun both ways.
3. It is a neat trick that you get stuck after playing facing south, but call me old-fashioned. I'd say, "Wow, good for the architect that he was able to construct the hold this way." Then I'd think to myself how I'd rather have played the rooms separately with their own high scores.

All in all, this is pretty original and I doubt you want to change it. In any case, I'd have to say it's unique and cool!

Schik
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I'll fess up and admit I ran through this facing south first, and had a big "!)%$*!)@&%)!@" moment when I got to the end. But then I realized I had been a bit disappointed with how easy it had been, so I stopped being mad and just re-started it the other way.

It is a very nice hold. Good work.

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larrymurk
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Thinking more about this, I'd keep the hold as is because:
1. Looks neat.
2. It is very quick which should minimize the annoyance factor.
3. The hold is unique and how many holds can we say that for? Maybe 1 other.

As far as people reading this architecture thread, I'd recommend deleting this thread before posting the hold. I believe you can delete the entire thread by simply deleting the first post.

Banjooie
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Why would you delete the architecture thread? All that's going to happen is a flood of Hints and Solutions threads anyway.

RoboBob3000
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I'm prepping this hold for submission in the near future. I'll post an updated version shortly that includes a secret room and a room behind a master wall. Nothing really fancier than a hint at the solution and the architect's seal.

Quick question: Is the JtRH title screen music (or manipulations thereof) okay to incorporate in the hold, or do I need Caravel permission first? If I do need permission, then consider this my request for permission.

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RoboBob3000
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Scratch that last question. I took a different approach.

The latest version will be in the first post in one minute. Any thoughts?

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