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Niccus
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Well, considering the only option is to jump or not to jump, game theorists will have a field day...

The only thing that kills/saves you is swarm behavior, 'd be interesting.

You know, like that online experiment thing with a picture, and you only decide to turn it "on" or "off" to make the big picture. What was that again?
08-06-2006 at 02:42 AM
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NiroZ
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
ErikH2000 wrote:
Here's a picture that gives you an idea of what the contest game will look like:

Huge!

The picture is very large and may shrink to fit on the page depending what browser you have. In that case, don't forget to zoom in to full scale. And actually, it's kind of cool to look at the map in a shrinked view too. Looks kinda like a circuit board. So that nobody misses out, here is a shrunken image:

Medium-sized!

This image is generated from the software I wrote to handle updating the game. The example arena is one I made up pretty quickly, and isn't the one that people will be competing in for the contest. This image shows 100 AI-controlled snakes after 300 or so turns. It's fun to try to trace the path of one snake through all of the different loops.

There are a few extra rules for the contest game that weren't in place for the puzzles:
* The goal is not to cover all space, but is instead to survive longer than the other snakes by continuing to find space in which you can move.
* Jumps over live snake heads (black heads) are not allowed.

Another post is coming that explains the contest properly.

-Erik

Ooh, looks fun.

Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of Tron?
08-06-2006 at 03:39 AM
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Ezlo
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NiroZ wrote:
Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of Tron?

It's most certainly not you. I love that game.

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08-06-2006 at 03:43 AM
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techant
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This looks like it will be a blast... :blowup

Game on
:swordfight:

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[Last edited by techant at 08-06-2006 04:11 AM]
08-06-2006 at 04:10 AM
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Jason
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Oh my goodness!

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08-06-2006 at 08:27 AM
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Doom
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ErikH2000 wrote:
TripleM wrote:
I'm sure the starting positions won't be 100% fair at all.. but hey, I wouldn't have a clue which is better than which, so it doesn't really matter a bit :D
Yeah, I'll do what I can to make things fair, but there is no doubt that unfair situations will come up.
I'd say that everything is fine, as long as you give everyone a good chance to get in the game. Look at snake #44. There's quite long time before any commands can be given to it. What makes it worse, is that it goes to the NE-corner of it's starting area, no matter what you do. Snake #45 can block the right side of the room nearly completely before that happens (BBBJJJ). According to the rules, this is enough to kill #44, because it can't jump over #45's head.

This isn't probably a bad problem, because it can happen only in few places, and the decisions of other snakes may affect it as well. Still, it should be possible to look at the starting routes a bit, so no-one is at an immediate risk of dying at the beginning.

[Last edited by Doom at 08-07-2006 12:29 AM : read the rules, and chancged some things]
08-06-2006 at 01:21 PM
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Maurog
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (+10)  
If you want to have a real-time feel of multisnaking environment, I have fitted the new snakes (on a plane) into my applet. It's much smaller area of course, but it's not two hours per move, and might help you test the movements and prepare in some way. The snakes move as per the contest rules, complete with not jumping over other snakes' heads.

Get the applet here (it's in the Nameless Project thread). You need Java Runtime Environment if you don't have it yet.

Instructions and keys:
Click here to view the secret text
It should work on just about any platform, since it's Java. Any comments welcome.

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[Last edited by Maurog at 08-10-2006 05:08 PM : Another update, and it's the last one this time. The prohect will go on but the flying snakes are finished.]
08-08-2006 at 06:45 AM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Re. Erik's original qualifying puzzle:
Ezlo wrote:
EDIT: Here's a few challenges for people:

1. Only jump on even numbered turns.
2. Make your last jump at least 10 turns before the snake dies.
3. Jump more than 15 times.
Are you saying these are possible? I can't manage #1 or #2.

For #3 though I've managed to jump 20 times. Can you?

[Last edited by Chris at 08-13-2006 10:43 AM : I kan't get used to spelling Erik's name korrektly.]
08-08-2006 at 09:53 AM
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Chris
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matchu wrote:
I've solved Niccus's "mystery starting point" one.

Click here to view the secret text

On move 26 following these steps I find myself in a dead end, needing to jump backwards. I don't think your solution works.


08-08-2006 at 12:45 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
It's perfectly legal to jump backwards if there's a free cell behind you.

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08-08-2006 at 04:05 PM
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Maurog
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Legal, yes, but it's not going to the solution:
Click here to view the secret text


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08-08-2006 at 04:36 PM
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Maurog
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Here is one solution I found:
Click here to view the secret text


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08-08-2006 at 04:55 PM
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Chaco
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Wow. Those are some awesome, awesome graphics there Maurog. :)

I see what you mean there.

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08-08-2006 at 05:20 PM
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Maurog
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Why, thank you! I draw the tiles myself, it's nice to see that people like them.

PS: The snakes in the applet (linked in one of my posts further up and used to make the screenshots) are now connected.

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08-09-2006 at 06:40 AM
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Chris
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Chaco wrote:
And here's the solution to it, which took only a couple of minutes. I'm not really sure there are many ways to get stuck in this style of puzzle.

Click here to view the secret text

The funny thing about this 'puzzle' is that there's only one point at which you have to chose between 'bump' and 'jump', and whichever you chose, you win anyway!

jump: 1 4 5 10 11 14 17 19 21 24 25 30 31 32 33 34 36 37 38 40
bump: 1 4 5 10 11 14 17 22 23 28 29 30 33 34 36 37 38 40

08-09-2006 at 04:45 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
In other words, it's impossible to *not* solve matchu's puzzle?

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08-09-2006 at 05:11 PM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Right. There's only one place where you have to make a decision, and whatever you chose, you still win. :)

Here's a puzzle that I think has only one solution. Does knowing that make finding it any easier?



[Last edited by Chris at 08-10-2006 01:44 AM]
08-09-2006 at 06:01 PM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Here's another with a unique solution. I generated this one randomly, whereas the previous one I generated by hand to make it symmetrical. Does the lack of structure in this one make it any harder?



[Last edited by Chris at 08-10-2006 01:43 AM]
08-09-2006 at 06:40 PM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Here's a 3rd puzzle, again with a unique solution. This is also randomly generated, but this time there are some walls as well as pits:



[Last edited by Chris at 08-10-2006 01:43 AM]
08-09-2006 at 06:58 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Alright, let me take a crack at these.

EDIT:

Well, #1 isn't really falling as easily as some of the other puzzles here. The fact that it's rotationally symmetrical doesn't seem to be helping since (as you stated) there is only one solution. Well, I haven't found it yet. :/

Maybe I should try the others.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-09-2006 10:22 PM]
08-09-2006 at 10:07 PM
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Chris
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Chaco wrote:
Well, #1 isn't really falling as easily as some of the other puzzles here.
If you're really stuck, maybe the following hints will help. For each puzzle I'll give the number of times you:

* chose to bump, when both bump and jump are available
* chose to jump, when both bump and jump are available
* are forced to bump, because there's nothing to jump over
* are forced to jump, because there's nowhere left to walk to

Click here to view the secret text

Is this too much of a hint do you think? Or isn't it enough still?

[Last edited by Chris at 08-10-2006 01:23 AM]
08-10-2006 at 01:23 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Nah, I'll just forego the hints. I'll get it eventually I think.

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08-10-2006 at 02:34 AM
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ErikH2000
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Guys, I'm really busy with other work and don't have time to look through all the submitted solutions. If anyone is unsure of his answer, you might post here and talk about it. Everyone who has submitted a solution so far will be entered into the contest.

-Erik

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08-10-2006 at 08:56 PM
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schep
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
ErikH2000 wrote:
Are we allowed to write a computer program to solve the puzzle?
Yeah, go ahead. But you're a weenie if you need it. ;)
Well, I'm a weenie. A few unsuccessful tries on paper were too much effort for me, and I don't have Java 1.5 here. I think I actually enjoyed writing the program more than trying to solve the entry puzzle myself. If you're curious, I believe the entry puzzle has 13 solutions.

And hmm. If anybody wants to play with this C++ program I used, go for it. (If you can compile but don't really know C++, you can change the puzzle just by looking for the definitions of YSIZE, XSIZE, initialDir, and init_grid.)

[Last edited by schep at 08-12-2006 04:39 AM]
08-12-2006 at 04:38 AM
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Chris
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schep wrote:
If you're curious, I believe the entry puzzle has 13 solutions.

My program finds 13 solutions, too, so I reckon that's right.

I've attached my program along with a collection of puzzles, mostly copied from this thread. There's no need to edit the source to change the grid size; the size is read from the puzzle file.


To compile with gcc:

gcc -o snakes snakes.gcc

Run the program giving a single argument: the name of the puzzle file. For example:

snakes chris1.txt

The puzzle file should start with a line giving the size, for example:

10x8

specifies a width of 10 and height of 8

Then draw the grid, using:

. for empty spaces
* for pits
# for walls
^, v, <, or > for starting position and direction


[Last edited by Chris at 08-12-2006 06:46 PM]
08-12-2006 at 06:17 PM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Hmmm... is this turning into a programming task? ;) (kinda)
08-12-2006 at 07:34 PM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Syntax wrote:
Hmmm... is this turning into a programming task? ;) (kinda)
I wrote the program originally as a way of playing the puzzle without using paper, similar to the java applet that was written later. After using the program to solve the puzzle 'by hand', I modified it to search for solutions automatically, then removed the interactive part.

I don't think it will help much in a huge room of 100 snakes, each moving unpredicably though!

Incidentally, how long is the challenge expected to take? At one move every 2 hours, that's only 12 moves per day. So it would take many days of crawling so just to cross from one side of the area to the other?
08-12-2006 at 07:49 PM
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Chris
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icon Re: Jumping Snake Puzzle Discussion. (0)  
Here are the (unique) solutions to the 3 puzzles I posted above:

Puzzle 1:
Click here to view the secret text

Puzzle 2:
Click here to view the secret text

Puzzle 3:
Click here to view the secret text


08-14-2006 at 06:51 PM
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