Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 08-19-2012
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Oops, right. That's actually the intended solution, but it seems to be totally unnecessary. Actually, the whole room is much easier than I intended it (though it was already meant to be super-easy; after all, it was the first DROD puzzle I ever created). No idea how this could possibly be fixed, though; maybe I'll just leave it as it is.

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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Alright, I've correctly solved 1N, and I've played through SC level 1

For SC lvl 1:
entrance and 1E: pretty easy intro rooms.
1N1E: once I realized the trick, and mapped it out, it wasn't too hard.
1S1E: I had a bit of trouble with this one, but I really liked it.
2S2E: This is a good choice for a secret
1N2E: This was a fun lynchpin room, though it wasn't too tough
2E: Pretty simple, once I figured out what everything did.
1N3E: I did something similar to mxvladi, but to kill the roach queens at 20,4 and 30,14 I had to swarm the room with roaches, maybe I didn't have to though.
1S3E: I sort think I did something unintended here too, but I didn't want to manipulate two roach queens at once. I used a live golem for one plate and a roach spawn for the other. I had to swarm the room for this one too.

I started the second level too. 1W is a decent room, but 2W bothers me. I haven't actually beat it so maybe there is a nice way to beat it, but at the moment I'm thinking that either have to do something fiddly with brains to keep a roach on some of the plates or I'll have to do something fiddly to kill the brain while keeping four roaches alive.
The thing about 2W is that it is the sort of room that if I ran into it in a linear hold. I would try for a bit and then probably stop.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Level 2: Ugh, that's excactly what I was afraid of. I don't know if there's a "nice" way to solve it; I personally still kind of like this room and its solution, but I guess it's not all too obvious. Also, I fear quite a few other rooms on this level are a bit tricky, too, so simply replacing it might not be the right thing to do.

I chose the linear layout for story progression, but I guess with some more scripting knowledge I've gained over the past few months, It might be possible to rebuild it. Maybe I'll have to scrap the dialogues altogether and start over; I'm not too happy with them anyway.

Don't expect any updates anytime soon, though. Rebuilding this level might take a while and I should really do some other stuff that I've been staving off for too long now.

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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I've been poking at some of the other rooms in the editor, and I think you could probably be a little choosy with the rooms, and I think the others might be less like that. I'm still wondering what the actual solution is.

I don't think you have to restructure the whole level, just switch out some rooms. Rooms like 1S and 1S1W are good kinds of rooms for the level. I wouldn't mind the soldier room as much as 2W either. I think I might just dislike 2W since I can't solve it, I don't know.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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I've played through all of the second level in the editor, although I haven't finished 2W or 1S2W. The rest of the level is great and would be fine if it were linear. 1S2W is a maybe, if it were there I would probably solve it, but it could annoy some people. 1S3W is the only other room I might worry about, but it seems fine in this level since it doesn't seem to be too demanding.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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By the way, I gave up at 2W a while ago as well (and solved most of other rooms on that level in editor). It seems to me that room like that should be introduced a bit later in the level.

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Okay, thank you both, I really didn't expect 2W to be that tricky... I am planning to replace it, but I couldn't think of a good substitute yet. As I've said, I still kind of like the room and I'd like to keep it, but I'm not quite sure where to put it yet either. It might be going into the post-mastery area, it might end up as a secret room or maybe I'll just save it for another hold. I also didn't have too much time lately and I probably also won't for the next three to four weeks, but I'll upload a new version as soon as I've figured out what to do with this room

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Update!

I've replaced 2W now. Still a trapdoor puzzle, but slightly different now. A bit like Level 1 : 1N1E, I think. It's kind of different from the puzzles I usually create and thus from the rest of the level, so I can't quite judge if it fits concerning difficulty, but I hope you'll enjoy it!

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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I really like the new room, I had trouble for a little bit, but randomly stumbled on the solution with some fiddling. I think it is a very clever room. I had played through most of the hold earlier, but since I was using the editor I have no recorded demos. I'll play through the rest eventually, though I'm rather busy at the moment.

Until now I hadn't actually bothered with 1S2W, which, while a bit fiddly and tedious at times, isn't as bad as I was expecting. I think the room is tolerable, and relatively interesting.

I'll have more comments written up in maybe two weeks, since I've got something that will pull me away from Drod for a while.

Edit: I still keep trying to poke at the old 2W, and I feel like my only sticking point is on keeping four un-brained or delayed roaches somewhere, probably in the spot with the broken walls, while I kill the brain. It seems tough, but also it feels like any solution I use will be sort of fiddly.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 03-30-2013 04:11 AM]

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Glad you like the new room! I created the puzzle without knowing a solution, either, and my solution is also rather random. I wonder if there's any nice pattern to solve it, and if the general problem can be solved for any odd square starting with 5x5, but I have no idea how you could even approach that. Doesn't matter anyway, I guess; I hope the 9x9 variant is interessting enough.

As for the original 2W, I guess it might be time to start giving away some hints. No idea if there are other solutions, but here's a small hint for what's intended:

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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I've also played through the new 2W, and I like it. I'd say my approach isn't random (at least it has some sort of pattern in it).

I wonder if the general problem can be solved for any odd square starting with 5x5,[...]

I'm pretty sure that problem can be solved for any odd squares nxn where n%4=1 (and puzzle can be easily redesigned for such trapdoor square). At the very least, my approach also worked very nicely for 5x5, 13x13, 17x17 trapdoor squares - I just continue dropping trapdoors in the same pattern. (monster paths length needs to be longer, though, for those trapdoor squares to be possible at all...with each bigger trapdoor square monster path length needs to increase by 2 squares).

My solution doesn't work as nicely for 11x11, though...

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 03-30-2013 04:01 PM]

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Oh, you're right, this is much simpler than I thought. I've also found a pattern for n % 4 = 1 squares now, and with some thought it turns out all other squares are impossible (even squares are impossible to construct and n % 4 = 3 squares impossible to solve). Glad you liked it, by the way

EDIT: Oh, wait a moment, if you consider diagonal movement, 4n squares are constructable and maybe solvable, too.

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[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 03-30-2013 04:46 PM]

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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File: The Intelligence Demos Blorx1.demo (31.8 KB)
Downloaded 57 times.
License: Public Domain

I've conquered the hold, and have one secret and one unrequired room to go. At this point I figured I'd post my demo set since I think there were some rooms that I did break.

Here are comments for the rooms I've played

SC lvl 2:

SC 3:


____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
IP: Logged

Thanks a lot for posting! No update yet, but a few comments.

Your solutions for Level 2 all seem to be intended.

Level 3:
1N1W: Yup, broken, but I think I know how to fix that one.
2W: Totally agree about the manipulation being tedious. Hm, yeah, a speed potion might work here, I'll try that.
2E: I'll maybe just replace that one, as I already said, I don't like it too much anymore anyway, though I could probably fix it by using arrows or something.
1S: Ugh, I hoped this would be impossible. Don't know how to fix it yet; I have to think of something.

The other rooms seem to work like I want them to, so I guess this hold is slowly approaching its completition .

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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To celebrate my glorious victory at the Ninth Annual People's Choice Awards (thanks a lot for that, by the way!), here's another update! I hope I've fixed everything now. I've replaced SC Level 3 : 2E with something slightly more experimental. I hope this works out as I wanted it to.

I hope this will be the final version. Please let me know if you find any more problems!

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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File: TI Secret Cavern - Third Level 1N1W Victory.demo (2.1 KB)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

I like the changes, the new 2E is quite nice.

I managed to break 1N1W again, this time with a slightly more intended trick. I don't know how necessary it is to fix this room though.

1S is now broken because the guard npc that hits the bomb doesn't actually strike the bomb when he turns.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 05-11-2013 05:30 PM]

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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It ain't dead yet!

I think I've fixed the final room now. 1N1W, too, I think, though I'm not quite sure anymore how it looked like before.

Hopefully this will be the final version.

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
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File: The Intelligence Demos Blorx1.zip (6.4 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

I've finished those two rooms finally. 1N1W wasn't as bad in terms of snake and guard timing as I expected, though I didn't use the gel/tar switcher so my trick with the tar baby might be considered cheating (I think this is close enough to the intended solution that it could stay in unless you do something clever with the gel).

For 1S I might have done some unintended stuff, but given the dialogue, it seems fine.

Here are my demos for each.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Great!

Both of your solutions are not completely intended, but they're definitely close (or maybe rather clever) enough.
I think I'm finally gonna submit it to the HAs now, because it has really been around here long enough. Thanks a lot again for testing so much and finding all this stuff!

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3684
Registered: 10-06-2005
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File: TI Secret Cavern - First Level 1N2E Victory.demo (1.6 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

I started playing the latest version of the hold from scratch, and so far everything looks great.

I think I might have found an unintended solution for Secret Cavern level 1: 1N2E. I solve the room without using the rock golems at all.

This doesn't affect the HA process at all, but I thought you might want to know about it.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Ah, that's interessting. Well, that room never really worked the way I intended it, anyway, so I guess that's fine.