Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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File: Fighters Way.drh (53.9 KB)
Downloaded 107 times.
License: Public Domain

Hi! I've been absent for a bit. This is my first try at a RPG hold, it's going to be progressively harder. It's the story of Jargon, a fighter of the Fist Order. He's going to train to find his Way and he will tell you his story as he progresses by your hand.

Note: I know I've tried to make many "normal" holds but I couldn't really get myself into it. This one will be made with my spare time from college and Warcraft, chapters may take a bit to come. As of now there is only 1 chapter, and it is quite short, I just want to know how it is before keeping on. ^^

Edit: New version out! I fixed most of the little snappy bugs so far, and I've even added a whole new region to the first chapter! Also corrected some script problems. Also, inventory storage areas! (Edit2: Sword bug fixed, went to the simplest possible, you don't have a sword to begin the hold. )

Edit: Another version out with a fully functional (At least when -I- tested it, let's see what you guys will find ) Chapter 2! If you dare solve a hard puzzle, you may find the Goblin-Biter...

Edit: New version, minor bugs fixed and preview of the third chapter if you're in the editor. Working on a cutscene involving making the player move without his/her control, apparently it's much more complicated than TCB... So don't pay attention to the stalwart that is still there at the end of the cutscene in 1N of the Prologue, it will be fixed eventually.

Edit: Chapter 3 live! Warning, the last boss of there is quite tough... Can you find the super shield? It's not necessary, I've tested and it's completable without it, it just isn't easy. That's when things become harder. Also, the Clockwork puzzle isn't working yet, been doing a lot of scripting on it and I'm pretty confused as to what I've wrote where and how, when... Bah, I'll fix that puzzle later. It will award only a green key as it is relatively not complicated. (Inter-Edit: 1N Cutscene in the Prologue fixed!)

Edit: Chapter 3 and inventory bugs fixed! Last version before I finish working on Chapter 4 and Interlude 1.

Edit: Interlude released! You will learn more about Jargon in that mini-chapter. Chapter 4 in construction, if you can reach the stairs then kudos, because it's not fully complete yet.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-20-2008 04:45 PM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Did you mean to force me to use the wodden sword on the first boss? Because it's very easy to just do a little loop, and pick it up again. As I did it I got the yellow key in 1S, the blue key in 2S, opened the blue and the yellow door, defeted the boss, got the shield. Even if you do use the wooden sword it's best to beat the boss as soon as you get the keys, I think.

Also: You do know that as of now it's impossible to get the gem in 1E, right? You would need a grappling hook due to the arrows there.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-05-2008 08:28 AM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Many upgrades are meant to be un-attainable yet though I'm pretty sure you don't need any special items to do it... I'll check and fix if needed.

I'll check the sword problem, you're supposed to use the wooden sword, yup.

I haven't thought of the yellow key / blue key problem, the boss shouldn't be attainable before you've solved the other rooms, a problem that I'm getting rid of on the second chapter.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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Nuntar wrote:
The wooden sword problem is fixable by putting a trapdoor under it and making a second shortsword available only after killing the boss.

That also needs some way to make it backtrackable.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-05-2008 01:02 PM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1300
Registered: 06-14-2005
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Or you can just put oremites beside the boss.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Nuntar wrote:
Technically, the gem is reachable; you just can't escape after getting it.

I fixed it, and I changed it a little.

The wooden sword problem is fixable by putting a trapdoor under it and making a second shortsword available only after killing the boss.

Actually, the wooden sword is gonna be your sword for all of chapter 2. I began calculating with the short sword then I noticed that roach queens spawned eggs that could easily be killed when you have the short sword, thus why I gave a wooden sword.

For the key problem, my suggestion is that you change the yellow key in 1S1E to blue and have two blue doors blocking the boss fight, and make the green door in 1S1W one tile shorter so you don't have to open it to escape the room. (This rewards a player who finds the second green key without making it necessary.)

The green key will allow the player to reach a defense gem, the only one in the first three chapters, though it won't be in chapter 1. In other words, thanks, I followed your advice, though I didn't put a second blue key.

Why is the level map in what has to be the last room you solve (otherwise you can't get enough greckles)?

Actually when I do it, it's the first room I solve. If you need more, some roaches are outside of the Chapter 1 as well, in the Prologue. Also you can clear out the remaining roaches in the center of the 1S room before exiting the area for the first time.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-05-2008 10:46 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Nuntar wrote:
Roaches only give 2 greckles each, there are only two in the Prologue, and you need 30 greckles to open all the doors in 1S1W, since you can't ever return to that room after leaving it.

I'll think on the sword thing and manage it more, but you're wrong on this point. You will be able to re-enter the room later on, with a special item.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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New version out, lemme know what you think about it.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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It's impossible now. You can't drop trapdoors without a sword. Why don't you just give me a woden sword to begin with?

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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For some reason, the sword value 1 to set a sword from the beginning in the player's hand doesn't work. o.O

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Oooh, that's why! 0.0.3 coming in a few minutes then.
I also took a bit of time to implement a working inventory storage that can be reached not by cmd, but by special rooms. There's an inventory reach point at the entrance of Chapter 1.

(The cmd will be for a smaller inventory later.)

Edit: Actually, it doesn't seem to work; the var is for the scripted guy and not the players.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-07-2008 02:43 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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I need to buy better contact lens.
In any way, I've solved the sword problem, and the hold is exporting as I edit this.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-07-2008 03:01 PM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Hi,

I don't yet have any comments for the first level (as I'm going to be replaying that a few times to improve my score) but I do have some comments:

Some of your scripts, such as the one for the inventory space in Chapter One: The Entrance, could use an Imperative: Restart on Entrance, as currently they only work once and then stop working. (This is especially important in the case of "warp tunnels" such as the one in Twice South Once West that I might want to use over and over again.)

I'd like to have it be made explicit (possibly either by way of scroll or message) that in Way of the Strong: Twice South the black door at the entrance will only drop once all the clues on the level have been read. (This is because I worked out the puzzle in the first version purely based upon the pressure plate functions, *not* by clue order, and thought it to be a good puzzle.)

More comments when I make a run that I'm satisfied with.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
Some of your scripts, such as the one for the inventory space in Chapter One: The Entrance, could use an Imperative: Restart on Entrance, as currently they only work once and then stop working. (This is especially important in the case of "warp tunnels" such as the one in Twice South Once West that I might want to use over and over again.)

I've been trying to work on it since you've posted, and the script that brings us back from the storage gets us at the square where we warp to the storage. Moving one square brings us back to the storage...

Why can't scripting be simple? D:

I'd like to have it be made explicit (possibly either by way of scroll or message) that in Way of the Strong: Twice South the black door at the entrance will only drop once all the clues on the level have been read. (This is because I worked out the puzzle in the first version purely based upon the pressure plate functions, *not* by clue order, and thought it to be a good puzzle.)

Done and done, you can now choose to either get the clues or to try and solve it without.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Fang wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Some of your scripts, such as the one for the inventory space in Chapter One: The Entrance, could use an Imperative: Restart on Entrance, as currently they only work once and then stop working. (This is especially important in the case of "warp tunnels" such as the one in Twice South Once West that I might want to use over and over again.)

I've been trying to work on it since you've posted, and the script that brings us back from the storage gets us at the square where we warp to the storage. Moving one square brings us back to the storage...

Why can't scripting be simple? D:

Just add a "Wait While Player At (inventory space location) at the beginning of the script, so that when the player returns to the room, that statement executes first. Scripting is simple, it's just not necessarily easy.

Glad to help.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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I see, I see. Done, again. Next version coming soon!
I've been working on Chapter 2 as well, I'm about halfway done with a bit of script also done.

Edit: Actually that didn't work as I wished it did, but I found a way using variables to make it work.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-07-2008 06:25 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

New version out! Chapter 2 working, Chapter 1 fixed.

Edit: Yes, the Goblin-biter is accessible. You don't have to get it, but it's a bonus. It's not easy... While doing I got the idea and added it to my hold. You can see that idea on

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-07-2008 11:14 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Nuntar wrote:
First of all, you need to indicate that CMD takes you to an inventory. I wasted a lot of time because I didn't know this.

Second, even with the inventory the puzzle in 1E is still impossible. The last bomb does not go off, so you can't escape from the room after taking the portable orb.

I'll edit the some script to speech the CMD thing, but the 1E is doable. You gotta use special items to reach the orb. Notice the little accessory token on the ground?

Edit: In my version of the hold, I fixed the CMD thing; you can't open your little inventory before you reach the Shortsword. If I did this, it was to solve an issue where you could use the wooden sword on 1E and that wasn't what I had in mind for the puzzle.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-08-2008 04:04 AM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Updated right before I head to bed, with some fixes and other nifty stuff.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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The "go toable" inventory of level 1 freezes up once you've gotten your own one. It's end square takes you back into the same room.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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The shortsword is there, Nuntar. In level 2 2S1E, to be exact.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Nuntar wrote:
But how can I get to Level 2 when there's a red door blocking off the stairs, no orbs or trapdoors in the room, and I can't reach the portable orb yet?

The tunnel that seems to lead nowhere is a waypoint to the second part of the first chapter, in the same room than the trapdoor. I'll include a speech to tell the player the door gotta be opened elsewhere in the level.

Blondbeard wrote:
The "go toable" inventory of level 1 freezes up once you've gotten your own one. It's end square takes you back into the same room.

Wait, what? I don't understand, the inventory of what chapter, the prologue? Or... The storage one from Chapter 1?

Blondbeard wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×About 1E: Was I supposed to use the hand bomb to explode every bomb but one, then pick out my short sword from the inventory, then drink a speed potion and then explode the last bomb, taking only half my lives in damage? If so: Quite expensive to get that goblin biter

Actually...

It may be expensive to get the goblin-biter, but it helps a lot, and special items are wiped every trilogy of chapters anyway.
(This means that every secret room that contains anything in the chapter 1-3 are reachable using chapter 1-3 items. No need to enormous backtrack, yay!)

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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I meant the storage area of Chapter 1. If everything worked as it ought to you could store the woden sword there, get the short sword and return for the woden sword.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-08-2008 02:02 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Hm... You're right. I'll change it too. It's not like you really need it before getting the sword anyway.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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Playing through. The main problem of this hold first part of this hold(haven't played second part yet) that it's quite linear. Yes, you have choices where to go first, but your way is quite linear anyway. First, I have to go to 1S, then - to 2S, get those keys, go to 1W, get ATK gem etc. Yeah, there're some choices. For example, kill or not kill all the roaches in 1S/1W... but that's not enough in my opinion.


Also, you gave me too much HP. That fight with strong essense didn't make sense because of that. Lowering HP poitons number and effect will make the hold more challenging. Also, the fact that you give the player so much HP spoils the choice in Chapter 1 - 4S. I always choose ATK bonus instead of massive amount of HP since I already have a lot of HP.

Well, the hold is quite good anyway.

I'm playing chapter 2 now.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
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Nuntar wrote:
Actually, the HP is needed to beat the first goblin in Level 2 "the hard way" (i.e. without the bomb) -- I only just had enough for this fight.

Having beaten Level 2 both the easy and hard ways, I hope there will be a suitable reward for doing it the hard way in Level 3

Why were there autosaves both for killing the goblin and getting the short sword -- events that occur a few seconds apart with no decisions in between them?

Using the bomb will lock you out of the goblin-biter unless you're willing to spend another blue key to get the wooden sword back. And you won't get a spare blue key until chapter 3.

For the autosaves, that's right... I'll delete the shortsword one, now that you mention it, that's true.

Chapter 1 is kind of an "introductory" chapter. I'm inspiring a lot from Tendry's Tale (because it is simply awesome, though I won't copy anything because copying proves your lack of imagination) and I remember the first level where you kinda grab keys all around and walk to the second one without doing much anything except fight a few roaches and a spider. There are choices on the second part of the chapter too, until you get enough ATK to kill the roach eggs anyway.

Edit: I've just got done building the second "easter egg hunt", first one being the goblin-biter. This one will award you a nice shield that you only would get in a much later chapter, though you do need the goblin-biter to reach the shield otherwise goblins will destroy you. If you don't get the shield before heading to chapter 4, then it will disappear along with the goblin-biter (if you didn't get it) and the accessory items. Otherwise, we could use later level items to reach those easily.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-08-2008 02:26 PM]

TFMurphy
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Fang wrote:
Using the bomb will lock you out of the goblin-biter unless you're willing to spend another blue key to get the wooden sword back. And you won't get a spare blue key until chapter 3.

Untrue. You can stash the Wooden Blade into one of the global inventory rooms before picking up the Short Sword.

And regarding the use of brains in Chapter 2: they were used fine. The question isn't "should I kill the brain", it's "should I kill the brain *now*". You do eventually figure out you can't really get 38 ATK before the Short Sword, so that ends up making your decision for you, but until then, you're not *sure*.

I'll also note that the Roach Queens can only be instakilled after the Short Sword if you've collected almost every Power Gem up til that point. Of course, the Goblin kinda takes you on that route anyways, but it's still a possibility that people may have missed some prior to this.

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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Conquered. Ended with 109 HP, 60 ATK and 27 DEF. I actually didn't find any bomb anywhere, so I had to kill that goblin without it. Yeah, Chapter 2 is much more fun and challenging+has some choices and player can optimise a lot while solving it. Nice hold.

Waiting for the third chapter now...

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

TFMurphy wrote:
Untrue. You can stash the Wooden Blade into one of the global inventory rooms before picking up the Short Sword.

Fixed. Working on chapter 3 right now. It will offer a lot more choices than the other chapters, because to end the first trilogy you have to gather 7 green keys and 2 blue keys, or skeleton keys. If you've been optimising, you already have about 3 green keys or so upon entrance; the more keys you have, the less challenges you have to complete to gather more keys.

Chapter 4 will yield the biggest choice: What Way will you follow? There are five Ways for the player to follow.
Way of Immortal: DEF, a lot of it
Way of Grand: ATK, a lot of it
Way of Health: HP, a LOT of it!
Way of Sword: Really Big Sword at the end
Way of Shield: Oremite Shield at the end
You won't be able to finish the game without any Way, but it's gonna be five different ways to finish the hold.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-08-2008 03:00 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

In the next version, both of those rooms are changed a bit to allow the player to make more of a choice.

I just finished scripting an army of roach that keeps on coming and now I'm spent for a few minutes.

I've tested the three challenges I've created after doing all the way back down to chapter 3 and they are working. I only have 8 challenges left to make now. ;(

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein