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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Depicting the DROD Number (Our official contest for January.)
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coppro
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+1)  
For submission: Simpuhl Numbers

I consider this to be unique encodings with different artistic representations, like our English language and all the various handwriting styles and fonts that exist.

Encoding:
Click here to view the secret text


Decoding:
Click here to view the secret text


Note: There is a special case of the quintillions group. This is not strictly necessary, but since it can never represent more digits, it shrinks the numbers. The system can be extended, in which case that special rule should be eliminated.

The Tattoo Test:
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The Drawn in Blood Test:
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The Cocktail Napkin Test:
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The "Hey, I Know You!" Test:
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Sample representations will be added in the morning.
01-16-2008 at 05:30 AM
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techant
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (0)  
Jutt wrote:
Techants My Simple Code:
Same problem, you state the shortening of repeating numbers is not required making it possible to encode some numbers in different ways. Also allowing the addition of filler letters has this problem.

Well I fixed mine removing the flexibility. Thanks Jutt.

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01-16-2008 at 06:30 AM
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eb0ny
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Is my entry valid in this context?

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01-16-2008 at 09:03 AM
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Maurog
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+1)  
For submission: In Plain Sight

With this system I tried to make the DNOD abstract enough to not look like a number at first sight, yet really easy to decode when inspecting closely. For this purpose, there are no fancy number bases, just stylized decimal digits tightly packed in a box of up to 4x5 size. The depictions used are intentionally connecting as to always form a single shape (see second example below).

Description and Samples:
Click here to view the secret text

Encoding:
Click here to view the secret text

Decoding:
Click here to view the secret text

The Tattoo Test:
Click here to view the secret text

The Drawn in Blood Test:
Click here to view the secret text

The Cocktail Napkin Test (Encodability):
Click here to view the secret text

The "Hey, I Know You!" Test (Decodability):
Click here to view the secret text


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01-16-2008 at 09:54 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+1)  
calamarain wrote:
Is mine legal then?
As far as I can see you only borrowed the shorthand concept and invented the shapes for the numbers and the layout yourself. You should be safe there.


Tim wrote:
I've updated my entry to add something in front of the final result, and that part is invented by me. Obviously, the English representation of the numerals part is not my own invention, but are you saying that all the other entries that use Roman representation of the numerals are also unoriginal and should be disqualified?
First of all I tink it's hard to draw a clear line between borowing ideas and copying existing systems.
I think it's fine to use the roman glyphs or numbers in your representation, as long as you do not present them in a system that already exists. For example: the roman numerals/glyphs are used in scientific notation or base 8 numbers. Neither of those are your own inventions and clearly will not be allowed. Yet if you use them in a completely new system, where the rules to represent a number are invented by you, that should be ok.


eb0ny wrote:
Is my entry valid in this context?
I find this difficult to determine. The fact that both the rules for encoding and the glyphs used are similar enough to the normal decimal system (and IP number system) is problematic. But for example the tattoo representation is an original addition in representing them.

As for the different representations: If you all include them in the standard, that may conflict with the uniqueness/repeatability rules. But if you keep the simple string with dots notation as standard, the originality is the problem.
Difficult.


In the end I can only guess what will pass the submission criteria and what not.

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01-16-2008 at 12:11 PM
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eb0ny
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Jutt wrote:
Difficult.
Well, the whole idea was instead of inventing something new, simply stick with something that works. Speaking plainly, I tried to improve our typical decimal notation.

As for different notations, then maybe I can leave the tattoo and suggest other methods as alternatives? It was my attempt to make the system versatile by giving options (as drawing the whole tattoo with blood is problematic, whereas method 2 works just fine). I will see what other opinions there might be...

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01-16-2008 at 05:21 PM
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Sillyman
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+1)  
Bah. I dislike the one-to-one mapping rule. Highly. It doesn't make sense. The rule should be that any representation should map to only one number, but a number could map to more than one representation. I'm leaving mine unchanged. Feel free to disqualify them if you wish. In fact, I'm going to say that any system that blindly follows that rule will have its vote from me decremented, or even zeroed. Rules are rules, but some rules should be broken. And I'm smashing this one with a sledgehammer.

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01-16-2008 at 05:37 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+3)  
Hmm... I'd say that giving pathological scores to entries that happen to involve a personal pet peeve is out of order.

But besides that...your claim that a one-to-one representation doesn't make sense also doesn't make sense. Our arabic numerals have a one-to-one representation and they work just fine.

And what's this about "some rules are made to be broken"?! This is a contest, man. There are rules in contests and that's just the way it is. That's like saying I should be able to carry the ball in my hands when playing soccer because "some rules are made to be broken". Or that if there's a contest about writing DROD haiku, you'll write a sonnet instead and give a zero to entries that actually followed the specified format because "some rules are made to be broken". Sheesh...we're not deciding the fate of the universe here.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 01-16-2008 08:40 PM]
01-16-2008 at 08:33 PM
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ErikH2000
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Leaving aside arguments for whether the rule is good or not...

The problem with changing rules mid-contest is that entrants have already committed effort based on the original rules. Right now, I'd guess that the sum total of time put in from different people is past a hundred hours. So if someone spent extra time trying to follow a rule, I don't want to invalidate their work.

If I make any changes to the rules, it will be to prevent a major problem or to clarify. I have this inflexibility not because I'm lazy or close-minded, but because I want to be respectful of people's work.

Hmm, but I am a little lazy and close-minded too, I have to admit. :)

-Erik

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01-16-2008 at 08:49 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (0)  
A short question: Is the deadline of the contest really in about 30 days? Seems a bit long to me.

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01-16-2008 at 09:28 PM
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Dischorran
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ErikH2000 wrote:
The problem with changing rules mid-contest is that entrants have already committed effort based on the original rules.

Well, one could argue that entrants also have committed effort not based on the original rules. :?

However, said effort clearly did not extend to actually reading all the rules, so I'm having a hard time summoning sympathy even for myself. I'm leaving my entry as is, since the arbitrary representation is really the only thing separating it from just being an alternate set of ten symbols for digits, and if it doesn't make it into the final vote, fine.

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01-16-2008 at 10:59 PM
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ErikH2000
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Dischorran wrote:
Well, one could argue that entrants also have committed effort not based on the original rules. :?
Call me a tyrant, but I intend to favor people that did follow the original rules. Maybe sometime in the future, there will be a contest that is all about not following the rules, and anybody who unwisely follows the rules will be evaluated harshly.

-Erik

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01-16-2008 at 11:14 PM
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coppro
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I have never seen Internet Calvinball be successfully implemented.

It requires a very secure web server.
01-16-2008 at 11:42 PM
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Tahnan
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Remlin wrote:
For submission: Drodlish

1 = ac
29.5 quintillion = eminabababababababab

This system translates two consecutive digits into two letters, a vowel and a consonant.
Can we ensure that Eminem has the DROD number 295,029?
01-17-2008 at 12:21 AM
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NoahT
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Tahnan wrote:
Remlin wrote:
For submission: Drodlish

1 = ac
29.5 quintillion = eminabababababababab

This system translates two consecutive digits into two letters, a vowel and a consonant.
Can we ensure that Eminem has the DROD number 295,029?
So, is that number supposed to be a translation of his tattoo of his daughter?

-Noah

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My stuff:
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[Last edited by NoahT at 01-17-2008 01:14 AM]
01-17-2008 at 01:13 AM
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coppro
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NoahT wrote:So, is that number supposed to be a translation of his tattoo of his daughter?
No, the Drodlish text for that number is (surprisingly) "Eminem".
01-17-2008 at 04:10 AM
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techant
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As one of those who missed that one single translation rule and had to go back and rewrite a chunck of my plan, I support keeping to the rules, unless the contest is not to keep to the rules.

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01-17-2008 at 06:36 AM
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The spitemaster
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Mine is rather simple. I created a set of Hexadecimals glyphs that are read in two column Chinese style. The first number is placed and then the second is inverted. Then you move onto the second line. If they don't line up perfectly there is no problem. The main concern is to have both columns the same length and have them remain close together without overlapping.

And this is the number... (In hex so, 99650DB3CA060000)



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01-19-2008 at 04:18 AM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (0)  
And since I can't work pictures here is the number.

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01-19-2008 at 04:19 AM
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+3)  
For Submission: Circular Lines

The Circular Lines is basically a different representation of decimal numbers. However, every symbol in this system can represent a number between 0 - 9999. It's similar to Jutt's Contour Script regarding the grouping of numbers, but unlike Jutt's system, this one uses a much simpler representation system that can be (de)coded easily.


Encoding and Decoding

Click here to view the secret text


Examples:

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The tests

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[Last edited by Tim at 01-19-2008 10:50 AM]
01-19-2008 at 10:42 AM
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The spitemaster
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Um sorry to be a downer, Tim. But isn't there a mistake in your examples? Number one should be on the other side. According to your instructions that would be 1000.

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01-19-2008 at 05:11 PM
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golfrman
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No, because it starts at top-right and goes clockwise. By the way tim, I love the numbering system.

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01-19-2008 at 05:22 PM
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Jutt
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Tim wrote:
It's similar to Jutt's Contour Script regarding the grouping of numbers…
If you win, do I get a share for inspiring you? ;)

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01-19-2008 at 11:09 PM
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techant
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I like yours Tim, :thumbsup I was harboring such an idea but my work duties got in the way of developement, then yours is much better then the ones I came up with.

I think you should submit a second version using color. It doesn't need color but it sure helps. If it was distinguishable with out color it would still pass the blood test.

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01-20-2008 at 05:26 AM
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Tim
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techant wrote:
I think you should submit a second version using color. It doesn't need color but it sure helps. If it was distinguishable with out color it would still pass the blood test.
I agree that colours can help, but rather posting this as a second entry, I can give you a colouring suggestion (which is based on the rainbow colours):
Click here to view the secret text
And I don't want to redraw anything yet, I think I've spent enough time this month of using MSPaint :?

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01-20-2008 at 09:49 AM
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Dex Stewart
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Wouldn't it be enough to just use flood fill on every line you've drawn there? That wouldn't be very hard.

[Last edited by Dex Stewart at 01-20-2008 09:50 AM]
01-20-2008 at 09:50 AM
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techant
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Dex Stewart wrote:
Wouldn't it be enough to just use flood fill on every line you've drawn there? That wouldn't be very hard.

All you need to do is pick the bucket, pick a color and point to it. I like the colors :thumbsup

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01-20-2008 at 10:03 AM
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golfrman
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (0)  
For Submission: Pentagon Quadrants

My system relies on 4 groups of 5 numbers, so that it can go up to 20 places. (The number of places in 29.5 quintillion.) There are 4 sections, each with a pentagon in it.
Each side stands for a number using the following method:

There will be a certain number of humps on a certain side for each number.
0: Nothing.
1: One hump on top.
2: Two humps on top.
3: Three humps on top.
4: One hump on bottom.
5: Two humps on bottom.
6: Three humps on bottom.
7: One hump on both sides.
8: Two humps on both sides.
9: Three humps on both sides.

So, for each pentagon, the numbers start from the top right side, and go clockwise. You read the sections in the following order: Top-right, top-left, bottom-left, bottom-right.And now, for examples:
Click here to view the secret text

Sorry it looks so bad, I can’t draw.

Those are, in order from top right CCW, 29.5 Quintillion; 1; 22,016,827,348,132,140,000; 3012.

So…
Tattoo Test: It can easily be written, and you could have it as a small tattoo on your bicep, or a big one on your back! It would also look cool if I had any drawing skills whatsoever. It looks awesome too!

Drawn in blood: It would be very easy to write if you only had blood, because it doesn’t have to be very big at all. And doesn’t require much writing.

Cocktail napkin test: It’s very easy to encode, just draw the cross thingy in the middle, 4 pentagons, then put the proper amount of humps on each side.

Hey, I know you!: Also very easy to decode. Just read the humps around in a circle and you’ll have it in no time.


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[Last edited by golfrman at 01-21-2008 03:37 AM]
01-21-2008 at 03:34 AM
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eb0ny
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For submission #2: Tetris blocks

Secreted for size, once again.
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by eb0ny at 01-22-2008 01:08 PM]
01-22-2008 at 12:40 PM
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icon Re: Depicting the DROD Number (+2)  
For Submission: DROD Number through DROD Characters

See attached word document for drawings of symbols. I'm retracting my previous submission as this is essentially the same idea, with cooler symbols.

Ok, again, general idea:

Click here to view the secret text


This is a base 1000 number system, which is much easier to convert to base 10 than a base that is not a multiple of 10. Again, this means that at most we need 7 symbols to depict up to 999 quintillian unique numbers.

Tests:
Click here to view the secret text


Hope that isn't too confusing.

[edit] added an example of encoding a large number

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[Last edited by captainzakku at 01-24-2008 01:07 PM]
01-23-2008 at 04:02 AM
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