Announcement: Be excellent to each other.


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Slayer AI and invisibility potions
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged
icon Slayer AI and invisibility potions (+3)  
After scoring an invisibility-assisted Slayer kill in the level 7 exit room, I experimented in the editor and figured a few things out. Specifically, I figured out enough of the Slayer's behaviour that I know exactly how to set up a Slayer kill while invisible (given cooperative terrain) and how this tactical weakness on the purple one's part can be fixed. I thought I'd share my findings.

I make the following assumptions throughout:

1) You are invisible.

2) You begin your charge with the Slayer outside the detection radius.

3) You are charging the slayer from behind (i.e. If he's facing south, you're attacking from the north).

4) You are working in an open area, with no walls or other obstacles to trip you up.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Slayer will begin turning to you as soon as you move close enough for him to detect you. He needs 4 turns maximum to bring his weapon fully around around, but you need 5 moves to reach him and strike. Fortunately the fact that you go first effectively gives you a 1-turn head start, but that still gives him just enough time to get his defenses up. To kill him you have to make him take 5 turns to get his weapon into the correct position.


ORTHAGONAL ATTACKS

If the Slayer is facing orthagonally you can get past his defenses by getting him to start turning one way and then moving diagonally to change your angle of attack, effectively "circling" him slightly without having to slow your approach. If he's turning clockwise you must circle him clockwise, and if he's turning counterwise you must circle him counterclockwise.

Of course you can't waste any time turning your sword, so you must already know which way you're going to go and have your sword oriented accordingly when you begin your charge. You'll have to have your sword pointed diagonally. First figure what direction your diagonal movement will be in (discussed shortly). Your sword must be at a 90 degree angle (2 turns) from that direction, pointing towards the Slayer. So if you're coming from the Slayer's west and will be moving northeast to circle him, point the sword southeast.

Now, how do you know which way the Slayer will turn? He prefers to turn clockwise if he doesn't think it matters, so that's the way he'll go if you enter his detection zone on a straight horizontal or vertical line from him. In that case you'll have to circle him clockwise, but one diagonal move is all you'll need. However you can also come in up to 3 rows/columns off of a straight line, in which case he will turn whichever way gets his weapon closer to you in 3 moves. You'll need to take more diagonal steps in this case, but you can make him spin either way you want him to and still score the kill.

Regardless of which way you come at him from he will try to retreat once you get within 3 squares, so you'll have to keep on him until you can pin him against a wall or room edge. It is vital that he hits a wall/edge before you, or it will give him the cover he needs to save himself. Which way he retreats will depend on how you moved: if you reveal yourself on a square orthagonal to the Slayer and move diagonally twice, you can make him retreat orthagonally. In any other case his retreat will be diagonal and you'll share a row/column with him.

Note that starting from 3 squares off the orthagonal is a little dicey. Once he hits the back wall I have to do this odd little dance with him as I drive him towards the corner, moving in and out like we're trading the hunter/hunted roles each turn. I also have to turn my sword once at the end. I still score the kill, though.


DIAGONAL ATTACKS

Attacking when the Slayer is facing diagonally is simple. As long as you come at his back, aren't on his row or column when you reveal yourself and have your sword oriented correctly he will always turn clockwise.

Simply start your charge from anywhere between the diagonal and his row or column (whichever you would reach first by circling him clockwise from the diagonal), and have your sword facing orthagonally in his general direction. From some angles you can have the sword pointing diagonally, too.


FIXING THE SLAYER

Fixing this should be simple. Unless the sword is pointing right at the Slayer in a straight orthagonal or diagonal line (in which case the default clockwise spin will suffice), the Slayer simply needs to start his spin in whichever direction will force Beethro to circle incorrectly.

It depends on which way the sword is facing when Beethro reveals himself. Just have the Slayer turn whichever way gets his hook pointing in the opposite direction of the sword faster. The hook will come around in time to force Beethro to circle more than he wants to in order to avoid it. This means he now has to turn the sword to get it pointing at the Slayer again, which buys our beloved bad guy all the time he needs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments, corrections, death threats...?

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

[Last edited by DGM at 07-06-2006 10:31 AM]
07-06-2006 at 09:45 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Slayer AI and invisibility potions (+1)  
hmmmmm.. Good job, but the thing is, changing monster behaviour isn't a good idea, because it breaks demos people may already have spent a lot of time on. (And for the record, I'm not saying this because of any of my demos. I don't think I have any Slayer room demos I give a hoot about.) There has to be a really good reason for it, and I don't think another Slayer kill is one. The Slayer isn't supposed to be invincible. The one in JtRH was supposed to be unassailable, and only killable (with bombs) in one room at the end. It's only because of design flaws in some rooms that there are unintended Slayer kills. (There are also unintended 'Neather kills in KDD.)

So basically, I don't see that there is anything to fix.
07-06-2006 at 10:09 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Slayer AI and invisibility potions (0)  
I second that. The "slayer" has slain more than he has been slain. He therefore performs his role perfectly.
07-07-2006 at 02:37 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Slayer AI and invisibility potions (0)  
Nice job, but the basic idea is that, since you're the delver and he's the defender, he's going to be smart enough not to let any invisibility potions be available. :)

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text

07-07-2006 at 04:58 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Insane
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 154
Registered: 08-06-2005
IP: Logged

File: Invisibility and the Slayer.hold (2 KB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Slayer AI and invisibility potions (0)  
I made a hold complete with a demo demonstrating invisibility kills.

Here it is.
Watch the demo from the main screen if you need any help.

-Insane
03-01-2007 at 07:56 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Slayer AI and invisibility potions
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.