old lady
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 04-06-2005
IP: Logged

I've worked out how to get all the snakes apart from the one in the lower left corner, it seems it must be done after the middle left one, but just cannot get the ww to go down between the 2 sq wall and arrows, trying the other way round wall the ww just goes across the room. Help please.

old lady
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 04-06-2005
IP: Logged

Forget that problem chaps, have sorted it out myself - getting good aren't I (not!!) to do with some backward move.

Hooterh
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 10-18-2005
IP: Logged

First room I encounter which I really seem unable to solve. Does anybody know in which sequence the snakes should be killed? Especially the middle one and the one in the lower left corner are problematic. When I kill one of them, I cannot reach the other one anymore!! Help!!

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

Yeah, you need to kill the lower left one before the middle one.

After I killed the lower left snake, I worked the ww back up into the middle left snake area by moving it around the left side of the wall. Then, you can move around the south side of the board to the right and kill the middle snake.

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Hooterh
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 10-18-2005
IP: Logged

Thanx for your swift reply. Now I finally managed to gain access to the 3rd level

RayneStormRN
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 08-08-2006
IP: Logged

ok, i'm really bad at ww manipulation, i've never learned exactly how they move, and it's trial and error, so far i can't even get one snake, what's the trick here?

ok, update, i got the left snakes, and earlier i got right, but restarted, i can' tget the middle snake. right now, i have two snakes dead, the two left, i can get the right easily enough, but not the middle, does the middle have to be the last? ugh, this is a pain

---

[Last edited by RayneStormRN at 09-11-2006 02:44 AM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

How wraithwings move:



It gets more complicated when multiple wraithwings are involved, but that's all you need to know for this room.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

Make that: If both of them are less than five, they will flee. If one (or both) of them is greater than five, they will approach you. Otherwise, they will stay put.

Put another way, the distance between the WW and yourself is just the number of moves it would take you to get to the WW's square, as if there are no walls, pits, etc. in the way. In other words, the maximum of the horizontal and vertical distances. If the distance is less than five, it flees. If it equals five, it stays put. Otherwise it attacks.

EDIT: Removed drivel pointed out by eytanz. *Unbrained* WWs do flee like queens.

---

[Last edited by michthro at 09-11-2006 07:03 PM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

michthro wrote:
Actually, when a WW flees, it doesn't move like a queen, it makes the opposite move of what a roach in its position would do. The difference is that at close range the move a roach would make can be influenced by your sword position.

I'm not sure I understand this. Taken literally, it's clearly wrong, since you predict that in these two circumstances the WW will do different things:

....
B-..
..w.

....
B...
.\w.

In the top situation, a roach would move straight towards Beethro, but in the bottom situation a roach would move diagonally. Therefore, you seem to say that in the top situation the WW should move away straight and in the bottom diagonally, but it will actually move away diagonally in both cases.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

RayneStormRN
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 08-08-2006
IP: Logged

ty, that helps some, i still can't figure out how to get that middle snake, the others are easy cause they are within that "five count" rule any tips specific to middle snake?
on this picture all the left snakes are dead, the ww is at 1 and i am at 2, am i screwed? the right snakes i've gotten easily before, but how to get that middle snake?

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Well, let me remind you that you don't have to push a wraithwing - you can pull it as well.

If that's not enough of a hint, here is a far more explicit verion:


____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

RayneStormRN
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 08-08-2006
IP: Logged

ok, working on it, i've tried that a few times and the snake clears out from between us, but i'll concentrate on various moves and try to keept he snake between us

GOT IT!!!! ty ty tyvm!!!!!

---

[Last edited by RayneStormRN at 09-11-2006 05:31 PM]

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:

michthro wrote:
Actually, when a WW flees, it doesn't move like a queen, it makes the opposite move of what a roach in its position would do. The difference is that at close range the move a roach would make can be influenced by your sword position.

I'm not sure I understand this. Taken literally, it's clearly wrong...

Oh, right. Sorry. Comes of not following the code all the way. If there's no brain it will flee like a queen, otherwise it's very complicated, but it won't behave like a queen. A classic case:

w......
wW...-B
.......

(w = wall, W = Wraithwing)
If you do the obvious thing and charge the WW with your sword aimed directly at it, it slips away at the last moment. Any other sword position and it stays where it is. A queen there behaves very differently.

---

[Last edited by michthro at 09-11-2006 07:17 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

michthro wrote:

eytanz wrote:

michthro wrote:
Actually, when a WW flees, it doesn't move like a queen, it makes the opposite move of what a roach in its position would do. The difference is that at close range the move a roach would make can be influenced by your sword position.

I'm not sure I understand this. Taken literally, it's clearly wrong...

Oh, right. Sorry. Comes of not following the code all the way. If there's no brain it will flee like a queen, otherwise it's very complicated, but it won't behave like a queen. A classic case:

w......
wW...-B

(w = wall, W = Wraithwing)
If you do the obvious thing and charge the WW with your sword aimed directly at it, it slips away at the last moment. Any other sword position and it stays where it is. A queen there behaves very differently.

Is this unbrained movement you're talking about here? Maybe the area you're describing isn't big enough, but the two choices I can imagine have different behaviors:

w......
wW...-B
w......

In this case, with an unbrained WW, there is no slipping away.

In fact, now that I think of it, it doesn't matter what's in that third row if the WW is unbrained. It will try to flee directly west and fail.

But maybe you were talking about brained movement?

Josh



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

jbluestein wrote:
But maybe you were talking about brained movement?

I was. Oh, and the idea was that there's nothing on the third row. I'll fix it.

Gas75
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

At first look this room appears unsolvable.

1) I am having problems to move after opening the ww's gateway: it always goes on arrows!
2) I think I need to use the ww to kill the snakes ... How can I kill the ww if it can't exit from the square of arrows and I can't enter within?

Mah, let's try to fix problem #1...

____________________________
http://gasweb.altervista.org/
My italian site devoted to DROD, with free AE holds to play.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

Gas75 wrote:
At first look this room appears unsolvable.

1) I am having problems to move after opening the ww's gateway: it always goes on arrows!

2) I think I need to use the ww to kill the snakes ... How can I kill the ww if it can't exit from the square of arrows and I can't enter within?

np: Kettel - Sekt I Sing (My Dogan)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Gas75
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

Okay, I've found a way to move the ww...
Killed NW and W snakes, now ww is blocked into the "U" wall at NW, and I'm on South checkpoint...
Moving from there, I can "by-pass" the middle snake without can kill him, and kill the eastern snake. No more without cloase the WW on border arrows.

____________________________
http://gasweb.altervista.org/
My italian site devoted to DROD, with free AE holds to play.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

Gas75 wrote:
Okay, I've found a way to move the ww...
Killed NW and W snakes, now ww is blocked into the "U" wall at NW, and I'm on South checkpoint...

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Gas75
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

Uhm, some problem trying this:

Click here to view the secret text

×You can kill the SW snake by carefully removing the wraithwing from the "U" and moving it down along it's west side.

WW moves always on the arrows...

____________________________
http://gasweb.altervista.org/
My italian site devoted to DROD, with free AE holds to play.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

Gas75 wrote:
Uhm, some problem trying this:

Click here to view the secret text

×You can kill the SW snake by carefully removing the wraithwing from the "U" and moving it down along it's west side.

WW moves always on the arrows...

That should fix it.

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Gas75
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

Great!
Never seen this behavior by ww in all KDD!

Now 4 snakes remain in this unusual room... The one on central paltform and 3 on east.
I like rooms with massive roaches attack! Not these one!

____________________________
http://gasweb.altervista.org/
My italian site devoted to DROD, with free AE holds to play.