Bombadil
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I love the new graphics for the roach queen, the sword/spear tokens and walls. They are gorgeous!

Are there any plans on improving some more graphics? After the graphics change in JtRH, the graphics has stayed the same if I'm not mistaken. I know TCB added some lightning and weather effects that are nice but I am talking about the sprites/pixelart.

I think new versions for (most of) the monsters/objects will make the new release stand out even more, and feel more like a new game to players.

Just my two cents.

Jeff_Ray...
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I agree with Bombadil. I was disappointed to find a lack of major graphical updates in TCB, and I would love to see some of those occur in TSS. That said, I won't cry a river if that doesn't happen.

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mrimer
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I agree with Bombadil. I was disappointed to find a lack of major graphical updates in TCB, and I would love to see some of those occur in TSS. That said, I won't cry a river if that doesn't happen.

Naturally, we do want to give players what they want. We're open to improving graphics, as you can see, and this is certainly the right time to be talking about it. However, please understand that we're not going to change sprites simply for the sake of changing sprites. Also, as you might expect, we won't plan to change any sprites simply to cater to a vocal minority. If there are specific graphical updates that you'd like to lobby for, and you can think of a good reason to make a change, here's what I suggest you do in order for your requests to gain support:

* Create a poll, listing your suggestions for specific, targeted graphical updates and mention why they are a good thing for Caravel to consider a priority. Let people vote for their desire for Caravel to make each of the said changes, on a scale from 1 to 10.

* Please make each suggestion specific (i.e., more specific than merely "update Beethro's sprite tiles")

* Please explain how it would be a good change to make (e.g., roach queens look too similar to roaches, so please make them stand out a bit more from roaches)

We'll consider these like "Greenlight" polls. If we see enough support rallying around any particular ideas, and they won't be prohibitive to implement, we'd be happy to consider them in the course of development. Thanks!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 04-25-2013 12:22 AM]

Watcher
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mrimer wrote:
Construct

Make no mistake. This creature is not a creature. It is not dumb as a rock. This is some serious technology that can track Beethro down with smarter-than-roach movement.

Knock it down, and it will reassemble every thirtieth turn. You'll either have to find ways to destroy it permanently (shove it off a cliff with a pickaxe for giggles!) or clear the room before it reanimates. You must disable them in order to conquer a room. Fortunately, once a room is cleared, they stand down.

I'm curious about a detail here. If you clear a room and then un-clear it by creating babies from tarstuff, will constructs then reanimate? Or do they shut down permanently when you clear the room the first time?

____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

mrimer
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File: rcs.png (602.9 KB)
Downloaded 1241 times.
License: Public Domain

The sixth scene of the trailer features some great new art by AlexK -- a mode of transportation in the Beneath called the Rapid Collection System, or RCS.



You can see more subtle use of the new overhead layer where Beethro walks through the access portal.

Also notice the little, animated steam puffs. You can add these looping animations as a custom character.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 04-29-2013 06:02 PM]

navithmastero
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mrimer wrote:
The sixth scene of the trailer features some great new art by AlexK -- a mode of transportation in the Beneath called the Rapid Collection System, or RCS.

[attachment]

You can see more subtle use of the new overhead layer where Beethro walks through the access portal.

Also notice the little, animated steam puffs.

I'd just like to say that this looks awesome!

-nm

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mrimer
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File: gentryii.png (128.8 KB)
Downloaded 1165 times.
License: Public Domain

The seventh scene of the trailer shows off a new "serpent" type in TSS, the

Gentryii



Though that is what it's called in Beethro's day, its full name of origin is "harpactognathus gentryii", or "snatching jaws". (Congratulations to Panther for being the first to name the new feature!) This is an ancient Empire creation that is again brought to light by an ambitious new leader. Hopefully it's a good idea.

This is essentially a serpent that can move in eight directions. It is invincible and you are not required to destroy it to clear the room. As has been pointed out, the chain this hungry chomper is attached to acts as an obstacle to creatures, like the roaches in this scene. You can pin down the chain by closing doors on it, and you can attack across the chain to smite the roaches with your sword. Your sword can block the gentryii from reaching you, so you can see here how you can manipulate the gentryii to follow roundabout paths if you're careful. Now architects have a large-scale moveable terrain obstacle that can affect strategy at a macro- and micro-level in solving rooms.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

west.logan
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When I first saw the video I was wondering why the chain chomp, but your explanation makes sense, it's cool you can now have a barrier your can attack across. Neat stuff!

____________________________
-Logan

mrimer
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File: architects.png (134.9 KB)
Downloaded 1159 times.
License: Public Domain

And last, but not least, the eighth scene of the trailer shows off a couple new game elements:

Architects and Powder Kegs

Architects are an upgraded citizen builder that can alter the room without having to follow a supply route. So, they're much more predictable and easier to build rooms around. If you love builders, or love to hate builders, then these might be what you've been waiting for.

Powder kegs are pushable mini-bombs. They explode in a one-tile radius instead of three, like bombs. You can push them around, as long as you do it carefully, either by hand or with a tool that doesn't have sharp edges everywhere like your Really Big Sword. Create controlled explosions that don't blow up half the room in the process!



____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 05-01-2013 03:45 PM]

mrimer
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west.logan wrote:
When I first saw the video I was wondering why the chain chomp

Aw, doesn't everyone love chain chomps? Aren't they just the cutest widdle guys?

...but your explanation makes sense, it's cool you can now have a barrier your can attack across. Neat stuff!

Thanks!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 05-01-2013 03:44 PM]

RabidChild
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mrimer wrote:
harpactognathus gentryii

I didn't know they spoke Latin/Greek in the Eighth. Can we just call it a chain chomp?

mrimer
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I think that's everything new that you can see in the teaser trailer. By my count, that's fifteen new game elements and features, some major and some minor. I'm glad we could share these with the community at this point in development. Feel free to use images from the trailer and post about the new game everywhere. It's time to start building up hype for TSS. I'd like to put up a TSS Greenlight page when we're a bit closer to release, and the goal is to garner tens of thousands of "YES" votes when the page goes up so we can release TSS in a big way, across many game distros, when it goes up for sale.

There are at least twice as many new features being worked on as were shown off here, so hopefully we can reveal some more when they are ready. As you know, we're walking that fine tightrope line between providing a lot of new content and showcasing it in the official hold in a satisfying way. At this point in development, it's looking like this means TSS will have a lot of content. I hope that translates to "big win" in everyone's mind.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

mrimer
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RabidChild wrote:

mrimer wrote:
harpactognathus gentryii

I didn't know they spoke Latin/Greek in the Eighth. Can we just call it a chain chomp?

Sure, but "gentryii" might grow on you.

This is something I shared with the dev team about the rationale behind the naming of the gentryii that I'll reveal here (paraphrased):

TSS will feature old, forgotten corners of the Empire where mortals rarely tread. Not king's dungeons nor High Paths, but ancient crypt-like places that expose more of the Empire's origins. Unlike the organic or silicate lifeforms of the Empire, the gentryii and the construct are ostensibly purely mechanical guardians. But whereas the construct is programmed, futuristic technology, the gentryii is primitive, rudimentary, and uncontrollable. I'm going with a latin/dinosaur designation to give the feeling that this is an *old* creation with a primitive brain -- something made early on in the Empire's annals, that was lost and forgotten deep underground.

...the Empire wasn't always so extreme in their approach to assimilating all knowledge. I feel this name sets an appropriate tone of heralding back to a more "naturally scientific" early Empire. Before the bureaucracy started squeezing all the creative life out of creation, turning everything into numbers and alphanumeric designations, I imagine they started with latin-like classification systems. Just like us.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 05-01-2013 08:28 PM]

The Architest
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I've wanted to hear about the early age Empire, so I'll be now screaming in a corner.

disoriented
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What can detonate a powder keg (safely)?

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Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.

mrimer
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disoriented wrote:
What can detonate a powder keg (safely)?

A bomb. Or another powder keg

Well, I'm guessing you meant what besides these

A neat trick you can do with powder kegs is push them over onto a fuse, and have the fuse light up the keg.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

hyperme
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So many goodies. But now I have questions, and they're all about these new-fangled weapon tokens. I'm guessing if Beethro acquires a new weapon, then drinks a delicious clone potion, the resulting clone will have the same weapon. But will the same apply for mimics? Can separate clones, temporal or otherwise, wield different weapons? Do mimics mimic weapon switches, or have their own weapon to switch?


Also dreading the inevitable Temporal Tarstuff Trouble. Team up with the past to clear those stubborn stains. Wait time clones how do monsters react so many possibilities!

I should maybe be quiet before I scare away all the devs. But seriously, exciting stuff to be sure.

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west.logan
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I fully believe in giving the freedom of choice to architects. But at the same time please, be merciful to me, I beg of you!

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-Logan

mrimer
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hyperme wrote:
So many goodies. But now I have questions, and they're all about these new-fangled weapon tokens.

Good questions.

I'm guessing if Beethro acquires a new weapon, then drinks a delicious clone potion, the resulting clone will have the same weapon.

Correct.

But will the same apply for mimics?

Yes.

Can separate clones, temporal or otherwise, wield different weapons?

Yes.

Do mimics mimic weapon switches, or have their own weapon to switch?

Mimics can swap their own weapon without affecting anyone else's.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Watcher
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Speaking of the new weapons: how does the restriction on killing moves interact with disarm tokens? Say you have a weaponless decoy facing a roach, and Beethro then steps onto a disarm token, causing the decoy's weapon to appear in the same square as the roach. Does the roach die? My guess would be that this is a killing move for the spear, but a pushing move for the axe, based on the idea that unsheathing your weapon is a forward motion.

(By the way, did you miss my question about constructs above?)

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Dischorran
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mrimer wrote:

Can separate clones, temporal or otherwise, wield different weapons?

Yes.

Do mimics mimic weapon switches, or have their own weapon to switch?

Mimics can swap their own weapon without affecting anyone else's.

...


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Jeff_Ray...
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*applause*

Excellent work, everyone! My architect nerves are really itching to use these elements! I'd like to see this released soon, but on the other hand I'd also like to release my two bigger holds before it does, so no rush from me!

____________________________
I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

mrimer
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Watcher wrote:
Speaking of the new weapons: how does the restriction on killing moves interact with disarm tokens? Say you have a weaponless decoy facing a roach, and Beethro then steps onto a disarm token, causing the decoy's weapon to appear in the same square as the roach. Does the roach die? My guess would be that this is a killing move for the spear, but a pushing move for the axe, based on the idea that unsheathing your weapon is a forward motion.

The short answer is that it depends on the weapon's attack properties. Unsheathing a weapon is not considered to be a forward motion -- that's based on the movement performed by the entity itself.

(By the way, did you miss my question about constructs above?)

Ah, almost forgot.

Currently, breaking tarstuff after a room is clear will not cause constructs to reactivate.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 05-02-2013 01:38 AM]

mrimer
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west.logan wrote:
I fully believe in giving the freedom of choice to architects. But at the same time please, be merciful to me, I beg of you!

No kidding!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

stigant
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Architects are an upgraded citizen builder that can alter the room without having to follow a supply route. So, they're much more predictable and easier to build rooms around. If you love builders, or love to hate builders, then these might be what you've been waiting for.

As someone firmly in the second camp, can you elaborate on the behavior of Architects? Do they still modify a pre-defined area of the board (say, adding/removing walls), but they can do multiple modifications in a row without going back to their station?

You can see more subtle use of the new overhead layer where Beethro walks through the access portal.

Is there a way to turn off the overhead layer? It looks great, but I can see it getting in the way of solving from time to time (much like certain floor sets get in the way of solving because it's hard to see the diagonal moves without a grid).

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Banjooie
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Did I mention how incredibly happy I am that I don't actually have to solve all the bizarre puzzles because this thread exists?

Because I am incredibly happy about that.

mrimer
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stigant wrote:
Do they still modify a pre-defined area of the board (say, adding/removing walls), but they can do multiple modifications in a row without going back to their station?

Yes, that's correct.

Is there a way to turn off the overhead layer? It looks great, but I can see it getting in the way of solving from time to time (much like certain floor sets get in the way of solving because it's hard to see the diagonal moves without a grid).

We're discussing how to handle this. I'm sure we will come up with something functional.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

navithmastero
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Perhaps an 'Enable Gridlines' option in the settings menu?

-nm

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One of your local HAs.

My stuff:

Watcher
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mrimer wrote:
The short answer is that it depends on the weapon's attack properties. Unsheathing a weapon is not considered to be a forward motion -- that's based on the movement performed by the entity itself.

Makes sense. I was mostly wondering about the case where the entity is stationary, as with decoys.

Currently, breaking tarstuff after a room is clear will not cause constructs to reactivate.

Cool, thanks. Same logic as green doors, then.

One last question from me, also about constructs: Is it possible to permanently disable a construct by killing it in shallow water, thereby waterlocking its mechanisms and preventing it from reforming? (I'm basing this on a guess that constructs work similarly to rock golems, the only other land-based enemy that leaves behind an obstacle on death, and are therefore able to walk through shallow water. If this is the case, killing a construct in shallow water should yield a stepping stone, same as with golems, but stepping stones are not obstacles. This makes it difficult to create sensible rules for reformation when the construct's tile is occupied by another entity, so it'd be more straightforward to disallow reformation altogether.)

Quite interesting previews so far. I'm looking forward to seeing what you'll do with all these new elements.

____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

mrimer
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Thanks!

Watcher wrote:
One last question from me, also about constructs: Is it possible to permanently disable a construct by killing it in shallow water, thereby waterlocking its mechanisms and preventing it from reforming? (I'm basing this on a guess that constructs work similarly to rock golems, the only other land-based enemy that leaves behind an obstacle on death, and are therefore able to walk through shallow water. If this is the case, killing a construct in shallow water should yield a stepping stone, same as with golems, but stepping stones are not obstacles. This makes it difficult to create sensible rules for reformation when the construct's tile is occupied by another entity, so it'd be more straightforward to disallow reformation altogether.)

Exactly. Killing constructs in shallow water is one way to disable them permanently, and it makes a stepping stone in the process. Other ways to get rid of them permanently are explosions, briars, shoving them off a cliff, and ...

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.