Chaco
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For "hide text until a certain time" tags, as you can see in our handy help reference, one need only type the untiltime tag and a date you want the stuff revealed on.

What if, however, you look at a poll, and you want to reveal what you thought when the poll ends? You'd have to take your current time, add on the days, hours, minutes, and seconds, and then input the new date correctly. And what if we want to reveal something in exactly two or three weeks?

You can't do that without a large amount of effort on your part!

Therefore, I propose that we should be able to input week-day-hour-minute format into the untiltime tags for relative date coverage as well as absolute date coverage.

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Briareos
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Chaco wrote:
Therefore, I propose that we should be able to input week-day-hour-minute format into the untiltime tags for relative date coverage as well as absolute date coverage.

Why not just make putting "poll end" between the untiltime tags do exactly that? That removes every possibility of an error...

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Tahnan
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Briareos wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Therefore, I propose that we should be able to input week-day-hour-minute format into the untiltime tags for relative date coverage as well as absolute date coverage.

Why not just make putting "poll end" between the untiltime tags do exactly that? That removes every possibility of an error...

I suspect that's harder, since the forum code would need to check other things on the page in order to display that post correctly. Also, it'd be handy to have in non-poll threads as well.

In any case, I second the suggestion; I'm tired of having to try to guess the right time.

Krishh
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What I would actually like to see are untilvote tags, which secret your text to poeple who haven't voted or viewed the results of a poll. While I understand the reasons for not expressing your opinion on a poll before it's done, this policy does make poll threads quite empty, since you can't start a discussion about the poll until it's over, and then any discussion is a bit pointless, since the results have already been finalized.

These tags wouldn't do anything in threads without a poll, as well as threads with an ended timed poll.

AlefBet
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Krishh wrote:
What I would actually like to see are untilvote tags, which secret your text to poeple who haven't voted or viewed the results of a poll. While I understand the reasons for not expressing your opinion on a poll before it's done, this policy does make poll threads quite empty, since you can't start a discussion about the poll until it's over, and then any discussion is a bit pointless, since the results have already been finalized.

Interesting idea. Of course, it wouldn't keep the information truly secret, just as the poll answers aren't really secret from people who haven't voted. (You can always just log out and view any poll you want.) But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful. It would still encourage more discussion and keep the honest people honest.

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eytanz
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That issue could be easily addressed by preventing guests from viewing poll results, no?

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AlefBet
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eytanz wrote:
That issue could be easily addressed by preventing guests from viewing poll results, no?

Sure, and we might want to consider that. On the other hand, that would give the BugMeNot guys a legitimate grievance. I'm inclined to consider this a minor problem. If someone posts a response saying something like "My vote was based on this thing that happened to me, but I don't want to influence you, so [This text will be revealed when you've voted]," most forumites would probably respect that.

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Someone Else
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Well, guests could be forbidden to see that text. I mean, it's not as if they've voted.

AlefBet
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Someone Else wrote:
Well, guests could be forbidden to see that text. I mean, it's not as if they've voted.

On the other, it's not as if they're likely to.

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++Adam H. Peterson

NiroZ
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AlefBet wrote:
On the other, it's not as if they're likely to.

Then why do they need to see the results anyway?

AlefBet
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NiroZ wrote:

AlefBet wrote:
On the other, it's not as if they're likely to.

Then why do they need to see the results anyway?

I don't see a need to exclude the lurkers or make things hard for them. Many people on the forum were lurkers for a while before they finally signed up for an account, so being good to guests is in some ways in the interests of the viability of the forum. I'd rather someone who's determined to cheat do it in this case by signing in as guest rather than by creating a shill account. For polls where early reveals is a genuine and significant problem, only time-delayed messages and timed polls are really safe anyway.

I guess I don't see any real need being met by excluding guests from seeing poll results, and if it doesn't meet a need, I'd rather make the guest experience more pleasant. (Plus, it is nice to have a tidy "you can already see everything anyways" response to the BugMeNot crowd.)

____________________________
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++Adam H. Peterson

NiroZ
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AlefBet wrote:I don't see a need to exclude the lurkers or make things hard for them. Many people on the forum were lurkers for a while before they finally signed up for an account, so being good to guests is in some ways in the interests of the viability of the forum. I'd rather someone who's determined to cheat do it in this case by signing in as guest rather than by creating a shill account. For polls where early reveals is a genuine and significant problem, only time-delayed messages and timed polls are really safe anyway.

More proof that one can become accustomed to mediocrity due to its prevalence.

However, to let guests see comments that are only intended for people who have already voted is something that I would draw the line at. A 'logout' button is a lot more tempting that going through the effort of creating a new account. I mean, people could forget to login before they read those comments.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 03-02-2007 07:04 AM]

Schik
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eytanz wrote:
That issue could be easily addressed by preventing guests from viewing poll results, no?

Oh man, I didn't even realize guests could do that.... I absolutely would like to fix this, but I guess I better not.

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AlefBet
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NiroZ wrote:
A 'logout' button is a lot more tempting that going through the effort of creating a new account.

Maybe, but what is even more tempting to me is to just vote. Either solves the problem of being able to see the results for a poll, and voting seems to me to be easier.

I mean, people could forget to login before they read those comments.

If this is happening a lot, then maybe it's worth considering. But I don't think it is. (Just a hunch, of course. I don't have the info needed to make an educated guess.)

Polls are mostly just for fun and the incentive to game it isn't all that high. For serious polls, the only protection (both from shill accounts and from innocent leaks) is a timed poll with timed comments anyway, and that's true with or without guest access.

Schik wrote:
Oh man, I didn't even realize guests could do that.... I absolutely would like to fix this, but I guess I better not.

If you think it's a problem with the forum, then maybe it's worth doing. But if we decide to do that, then my opinion on this FR for hidable text for polls goes from "sure, why not?" to "sounds bad to me."

As it currently stands, this forum certainly isn't alone in providing poll results to guests.

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I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

Tahnan
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The question of whether guests can see poll results, however, is tangential to the original request, which is relative "untiltime" dates. (And to the later "untiltime=end-of-timed-poll" request. I think timed polls are the only ones where "hidden until you've voted" tags are really needed; and in that case, I don't think there's a huge penalty for lurkers, who get to see the text at the same time as registered users who also didn't vote.)