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zex20913
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icon Uh-oh... (+1)  
Apparently, "tar baby" is a derogatory term.

I know we use it in context...but maybe we should be aware.

Trouble?

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08-01-2006 at 12:08 AM
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Niccus
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Awww, don't worry. All the powerful people in this here country have some sense of logic.

:)

:)

:)

:)

:|
08-01-2006 at 12:28 AM
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ErikH2000
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No disrespect to Zex, but I don't see any reasonable way that the term "tar baby" in the game could be confused with a racial slur. Generally, I'm pretty reluctant to change things to avoid offending people, and I dislike the idea that certain phrases should never ever be used. Intelligent people use a little thing called "context" after all.

-Erik

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08-01-2006 at 01:24 AM
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zex20913
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I agree Erik, I was just moderately concerned, as I'd never heard that term outside of the DROD context.

Maybe this'll get more people to find us, too!

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08-01-2006 at 02:25 AM
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Briareos
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zex20913 wrote:
Trouble?
Nah, just another politician that doesn't know when to shut it - it's like this is a pre-condition for becoming one... O:-

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08-01-2006 at 08:15 AM
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Elfstone
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zex20913 wrote:
Apparently, "tar baby" is a derogatory term.

I know we use it in context...but maybe we should be aware.

This is just political correctness gone wild. Ignore it. There are still plenty cats called "Darky" and dogs called "Blackie" and no one objects although both of those names could be taken as "derogatory". As Eric says, context is everything and I wish politicians had the **** to stand up and tell people who get their kn****rs in a twist over this kind of thing to find something more important to worry about. Lord knows, there's plenty really badly wrong things in the world to excercise people's minds and concern.

Elfstone.

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08-01-2006 at 11:09 AM
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Hikari
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Oh, but didn't you know, Elfstone? If governments don't try to ban words with questionable racial/gender/ethnic/sexual/(insert adjective here) meanings, well, they're not doing what the uneducated masses who don't believe in context at all are *paying* them for!

Just means those of us in the intelligentsia have to, um... make fun of puerile and/or asinine complaints about the language by using words that sound rude but aren't, then laugh at the confusion caused by that fact, and direct the subsequent complaints to Noah Webster.

;)

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08-01-2006 at 11:52 AM
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Elfstone
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Hikari wrote:
. . .. and direct the subsequent complaints to Noah Webster.

Umm, who is Noah Webster?

Elf. :?

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08-01-2006 at 12:22 PM
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Jason
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He made a dictionary.

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[Last edited by Jason at 08-01-2006 12:34 PM : spelling]
08-01-2006 at 12:28 PM
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Hikari
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Oh! I'm sorry... Brain blinked for a moment there; I don't think Webster is as inextricably linked with reference books outside the US.

In the US, Webster's name is on the vast majority of dictionaries you find around the place. In addition, he, um... kinda is the reason we spell things like 'color' differently in the US than in the UK. That missing 'u' is *his* fault.

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08-01-2006 at 12:32 PM
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bandit1200
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The extra "o" in "lose" that abounds on usenet isn't Webster's fault. ;)
08-01-2006 at 07:14 PM
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Niccus
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...And extra "u"s are being reintroduced thanks to IMs ;)
08-01-2006 at 07:23 PM
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Hikari
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But you see... Webster believed in *good* spelling, not *bad* spelling. So words like plz, thx, and rofl aren't his fault. Those are the fault of those 12-year-old kids who like to be online idiots. (No offense to any 12-year-olds around here... I think everyone *here* is more intelligent than that, or at least knows to spell properly on this forum ;) )

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08-01-2006 at 08:52 PM
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Chaco
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None taken, though I'm thirteen now. :)

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08-01-2006 at 10:42 PM
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UrAvgAzn
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Hikari wrote:
(No offense to any 12-year-olds around here)
I'm not 12. I'm 12.2 because I had my birthday back in April! No offense taken. I see where you were getting with your message. :)

Keep posting,

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[Last edited by UrAvgAzn at 08-02-2006 12:04 AM]
08-02-2006 at 12:03 AM
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Bunches
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I'm thirteen, and I would type like that, but i guessed that you guys wouldn't like that.
08-02-2006 at 12:11 AM
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Niccus
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And to think that once upon a time I tried getting in [AzN] in StarCraft :unsure

--

12 isn't the bar anymore, it's 15-18ish since MySpace.
08-02-2006 at 12:23 AM
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Chaco
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UrAvgAzn wrote:
Hikari wrote:
(No offense to any 12-year-olds around here)
I'm not 12. I'm 12.2 because I had my birthday back in April! No offense taken. I see where you were getting with your message. :)

Keep posting,

Hmm, that's weird. My birthday was in April too, except I turned thirteen then. :)

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08-02-2006 at 12:57 AM
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b0rsuk
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This reminds me of times when I was in PWW Q3Fortress clan.
PWW used to stand for Pure White Warriors. It was meant to be somewhat ironic, but we kept getting called racists. The clan was renamed to Pure oWWnage, but I still think people are stupid.

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08-02-2006 at 10:01 AM
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jamie
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Indeed.

There was an advert on TV in the UK recently for Pot Noodle, set in a Welsh "noodle mine", and 81 people complained that it was racist! :rolleyes:

An advert showing strands of Pot Noodle being removed from a "noodle mine" by miners in Wales is not racist, an industry watchdog has ruled.

The Advertising Standards Authority received 81 complaints about the advert from the public accusing it of racism.

However, on Wednesday the ASA rejected claims the advert was offensive following an investigation.

The makers of the Pot Noodle snack, Unilever, had earlier described the advert as "tongue-in-cheek".

The ad used 10 former miners who now work at the Pot Noodle factory in Crumlin, near Newbridge, south Wales.

It was filmed in a disused pit and showed them removing noodles from a "noodle mine" to be used in Pot Noodle products.

The advert ended with a voice saying: "Fuel for Britain, isn't it?"

More : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5214530.stm

What a sad bunch of people!



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[Last edited by jamie at 08-02-2006 10:51 AM]
08-02-2006 at 10:45 AM
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eytanz
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Well, you must realize that 73 out of the 81 complainers had lost family or friends to the great Welsh noodle-mining accident of '83. It's perfectly reasonable that they are a bit touchy.

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08-02-2006 at 01:04 PM
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Pinnacle
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By the way, the ad is right here
I don't see how it could possibly be offensive.

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08-02-2006 at 01:19 PM
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jamie
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Pinnacle wrote:
By the way, the ad is right here
I don't see how it could possibly be offensive.

The only offensive thing I see there is a page that refuses to load the movie unless I download Flash8 - "only a 1 minute download".

A few sites do this now - do they realise that some people CAN'T run flash8, or do they just not care ?

Incidentally, the pot noodle site itself now only works with flash8 - that's a commerce site.. Do they only want to sell pot noodle to microsoft users ?

I'm not downgrading my workstation to windows for anyone :angry

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[Last edited by jamie at 08-02-2006 02:24 PM]
08-02-2006 at 02:23 PM
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jamie
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eytanz wrote:
Well, you must realize that 73 out of the 81 complainers had lost family or friends to the great Welsh noodle-mining accident of '83. It's perfectly reasonable that they are a bit touchy.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

You're right, I'm too damn insensitive!

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08-02-2006 at 02:25 PM
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jamie
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here's the same ad, on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrNuT9sn0Gc

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08-02-2006 at 02:32 PM
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maestro8
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zex20913 wrote:
I know we use it in context...but maybe we should be aware.

"It's cool. I'm taking it back!"



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08-04-2006 at 02:13 AM
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ErikH2000
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Yeah, I'm taking it back. ;)

It isn't really my goal with Caravel to be some kind of anti-censorship champion, but at the same time I don't feel I should be obliged to fix every little thing that could offend somebody. I actually spend a fair amount of thought on these things, and could give you guys a long list of ways I've been uh... sensitive, I guess.

Like for example, we rather carefully removed similarities between Native Americans and Goblins in the Eighth canon. I renamed a town on the Master Map of the Eighth because someone told me it sounded vaguely obscene in German.

And there's other things that I leave alone like "tar baby", a room in KDD that looks slightly like genitalia to some people, or Beethro's questionable ethics that direct him to kill people. You can't please all the people all the time. You can't have knowledge of every stupid cultural hang-up on this planet.

Hmm. I did meet a guy at the Casuality conference who was a consultant in foreign cultures for gaming companies. It actually was a service he performed to check games for cultural appropriateness. But I'm dubious. I can't even figure out all the things that offend in the country that I lived in for 33 years. How could anybody figure it out for the entire world? You'd need a large staff of experts, at least one for every country in the world but often more to cover different regions and cultures of any given country. Then each expert would need to completely review the entire content of the game--images, text, recorded speech, symbols that show up in the level design.

...or people could just learn to not have kneejerk negative reactions to words, images, and symbols.

This has been a rant not directed at any person on this forum, but the world at large.

-Erik

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08-04-2006 at 03:32 AM
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Mattcrampy
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But the questionable ethics is what we love about DROD!

In any case, it's pretty clear that our tar babies come from our tar, so unlike 'Pickensass' it has a pretty clear etymology. So long as any game art doesn't give them big white lips and eyes I think we'll be fine.

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08-04-2006 at 08:00 AM
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Niccus
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Curious thing, while mapmaking around rotational symmetry, you'll stumble on the swastika. A lot. There are also other nice simple symbols that you stumble upon rather often...

Aesthetics vs culture, innocence always loses... *sigh*
08-04-2006 at 05:29 PM
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Hikari
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And let's not mention that the swastika is a *very* old Buddhist/Hindu/Jainist symbol that generally is used to refer to peace and intelligence, that was subverted by the Nazis, hmm? ;)

Come on, it's the logical result of a right-facing four-armed spiral. If you don't like it, make your spiral left-facing like the third dungeon on the original Legend of Zelda.

EDIT: Dratted forum doesn't want to like my unicode, eh? :?

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08-04-2006 at 08:30 PM
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