zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I was just having some DROD nostalgia, reading up on the fansite (or is it the real site? Perhaps the two should meld), and eventually found one of Erik's old messages, quoting Matt Daly.

Matt said something about monsters that attack when you kill one of their siblings.

This got my brain-wheels turning, and I thought how they were too similar to evil eyes in that they start out "sleeping".

And then I was all "Oh. Ooooh." Because I had what I thought would be a new and pleasant idea for all to consider--the Enrageable Brotherhood.

These are monsters that don't really care what you do until you kill one of them in a room. Once you do, they will all take one turn to wake up and then attack, moving 2 squares for each 1 square Beethro moves. They would have (double) roach behavior.

The other thing about them, since they don't care what you do, they are not required monsters if they are sleeping. Once you kill one, you've got to kill them all. Now, you may ask why you would choose to make them wake, if that's the case. One can block a 1-square mandatory passage. One could need to activate a pressure plate you currently can't reach. You could have some surrounding a necessary potion.

I think these guys would be fun to deal with. Thoughts?

____________________________

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

Interesting...

Would activating power tokens affect them in any way? If a stalwart/guard/slayer killed one, what would happen? Will stalwarts consider it an enemy when it's sleeping or awake? Do they burn on hot tiles? Are they vulnerable to briar? Can they be dropped off of platforms and bridges? Will dropping them off of platforms and bridges/being killed by briar wake them up? Will a bomb destroy them and if so, will it wake them up? Can it be eaten by adders and if so, will they wake up?

Sorry for the interrogation. My basic question was "If killed by means other than Beethro's responsibility, will they activate and consider Beethro the enemy?". Moving twice as fast as roach would be kinda cool. Do they have any other distinguishable features, or is that all?

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Power tokens--no effect.

The creature who stabs a brother is the target. If two separate entities do it, the target is the closer via brainmap. After the target is eliminated, remaining brothers return to sleep.

Stalwarts do not consider it an enemy while it is sleeping, but they do when awake.

They do burn on hot tiles--but this will not cause a waking to happen.

Same with dropping and bombing--yes, this is deadly, but not wakely.

I think adders go into that category too (not wakely) but perhaps they're smart enough to notice an adder is coming, and get out of its way. I'm not making demands on that one. Seems it'd be a bit too complex, and we should just let adders too be deadly, and not wakely.

Mimics and decoys, though, can become targets, and can be killed by an enraged brother. I'm not sure what to do with clones--if they attack the clone that did the killing, or the currently possessed one. Whichever is easier to dev, I guess.

____________________________

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3413
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

zex20913 wrote:
Mimics and decoys, though, can become targets, and can be killed by an enraged brother. I'm not sure what to do with clones--if they attack the clone that did the killing, or the currently possessed one. Whichever is easier to dev, I guess.

I think it would be neat to have an enemy that can't be drawn away by switching clones - you'd have to either switch back to the original clone before they catch up, or whack another brother quickly. I wanted to make a guardian room along those lines, but development time on Entropy ran short.

____________________________

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1138
Registered: 06-17-2003
IP: Logged

How do they move before any of them are killed?

-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

I think this should be implemented just because of the cool name. The Enrageable Brotherhood. Coming soon to a theatre near you. I like the idea itself too. Personally I don't think they should move before woken, either towards decoys or out of the way of adders. Although they are "enrageable", when not aroused they could be the complete opposite: the Totally Placid Brotherhood. Which I guess would make them the Totally Placid Unless You Make Us Mad and We Become the Enrageable Brotherhood. Completely understandable that they'd go by the shorter name.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Indeed. My idea was to have them stationary. That way, you can place some members in "must kill" spots.

____________________________

Rheb
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1211
Registered: 08-04-2006
IP: Logged

I really like this idea! But I think they will become a to complicated element if they were to be following different targets.

If anything but the player, a double or a stalwart kills them they shouldn't wake, and if they wake up they should act like normal roaches.

(I do kinda like the idea of letting decoys mimics and clones effect them the same way though i.e the way the decoy does to normal monsters. And they could kill a double when they get the chance.) Edit: on second thought, better they act exactly as roaches.

____________________________
Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

---

[Last edited by Rheb at 09-27-2009 08:26 PM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2334
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

It seems to me that a stalwart shouldn't be able to wake them, unless caught in an aumtlich beam. Ooh, nasty idea there. Anyway, would they go after the most recent killer, or any double, player, or stalwart that had killed one previously, taking the nearest one as their preference? Also, what would be their interaction with invisibility potions? Would they know who killed one, but only become active when that person was in range, or would they become active regardless of the invisibility of the killer?

Rheb
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1211
Registered: 08-04-2006
IP: Logged

Someone Else wrote:
It seems to me that a stalwart shouldn't be able to wake them, unless caught in an aumtlich beam. Ooh, nasty idea there. Anyway, would they go after the most recent killer, or any double, player, or stalwart that had killed one previously, taking the nearest one as their preference? Also, what would be their interaction with invisibility potions? Would they know who killed one, but only become active when that person was in range, or would they become active regardless of the invisibility of the killer?

No! Sorry for sounding negative, but I strongly feel that Caravel should focus on adding elements to drod that will not be obscure to new users. These creatures have just as great puzzle potential if they act exactly like roaches when woken, and it will immediately obvious to new (and experienced) players how they work.

(It doesn't really matter, but I feel that Stalwarts should either never put their swords on them when they sleep, or they should wake up if a stalwart accidentally kills one.)

____________________________
Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

---

[Last edited by Rheb at 09-27-2009 08:27 PM]

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

Someone Else wrote:
It seems to me that a stalwart shouldn't be able to wake them, unless caught in an aumtlich beam. Ooh, nasty idea there.

That makes no sense at all!

Anyway, would they go after the most recent killer, or any double, player, or stalwart that had killed one previously, taking the nearest one as their preference? Also, what would be their interaction with invisibility potions? Would they know who killed one, but only become active when that person was in range, or would they become active regardless of the invisibility of the killer?

These, though, are good questions.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

hartleyhair
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 307
Registered: 08-05-2007
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:

Someone Else wrote:
It seems to me that a stalwart shouldn't be able to wake them, unless caught in an aumtlich beam. Ooh, nasty idea there.

That makes no sense at all!

He's suggesting that they should be like bombs - a stalwart would only ever stab one if he were spinning uncontrollably under the gaze of an Aumtlich.

____________________________
I'm currently working on Jerrik's Dungeon, an oldschool Hold for TCB.

---

[Last edited by hartleyhair at 09-27-2009 10:48 PM]

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2486
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged

I'd recommend keeping it simple. The whole revenge target thing feels like it might be too complicated.

Here's my variation on the theme:

Instead of a monster type, make it a floor type.

It has two states: inactive & active. When the room starts it is inactive.

Monsters that are on it are asleep. They don't move, shoot laser beams, smartify other monsters or expand tarstuff

When any sleeping creature is killed (by any method) it turns the tiles to active mode - everything wakes up and acts normally.

If a creature moves onto an inactive tile, it falls asleep. This includes mimics and the player.
serpents: just the head
giants: ??? one square/four squares?
wisp: avoids inactive tiles

As well as mass awakenings, you also get
Puzzles where you have to manipulate monsters onto the tiles themselves.
Or the player is forced to step onto an inactive tile and you have to arrange things so that you will be woken up.
You can also turn on a brain or a tar mother in the middle of a room.

---

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-28-2009 03:29 AM]

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

but if it is a floor type, it will not stack with platforms and suchlike

also: evil eyes sleep

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

---

[Last edited by Jatopian at 09-28-2009 01:42 AM]

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2486
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged

True. The other option is to put it on the arrow layer - if you don't mind it not stacking with arrows.

The original idea doesn't stack with goblins

---

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-28-2009 02:12 AM]

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged

Rabscuttle wrote:
True. The other option is to put it on the arrow layer - if you don't mind it not stacking with arrows.

This actually makes a lot of sense... since it is trapping something in a non-obtacular manner. So yeah... traps that open when a monster is stabbed?

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

And if two of them collide they make a junk heap that kills the rest, even though they're too stupid too... wait, wrong game.