Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
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Lately I have found that a lot of my extremely old posts are being randomly modded down way after the thread hasnt been posted on for ages. Has this happened to you?

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
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Yeah, there's somebody going around who seems to hate the forum so much they've decided to randomly harassing people. Until the admin's come to the conclusion that it's harassment, and not free speech, just send me the topic which got modded down and I'll correct them.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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Unfortunately, I think that Schik can only see the last person to mod a post, not the entire mod history. So if you mod a post back up, we won't know who modded it down. If it truly is someone with a vendetta they should be stopped, but we need more supporting evidence. Can you provide some examples?

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 07-31-2005
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Last I checked, there was no reason someone shouldn't mod a post after a long time. It's happened to me before and I don't get all pissy about it.

http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=15787&page=1#184219

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 06-10-2009 04:23 PM : read the wisdom dang it]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
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I disagree. I think the older the post, the less reason you should mess with it. It's old news dammit. And it becomes much more likely that it's harassment rather than a genuine mod down.

And that link doesn't really apply here. It's not other people seeing the mod downs, it's the admins. Given that me, syntax, neather2 and now it seems Samuel as well have got strange things going on to our posts, it's about time. It's no different from someone keying your car, stealing your desk chair or spreading nasty rumours. It's harassment and it should be stopped.

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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The link applies perfectly. Nowhere in that post does it say anything about who sees the mods.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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Then what is the example about?

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
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ITT NiroZ fails reading comprehension, fails to realize a post may address multiple points or sub-points.

Here are the important parts:

ErikH2000 wrote:
We're never going to police the mod points. That would be a horrendous waste of time. There will be no Mod Point Bill of Rights, Mod Point Supreme Court, or Mod Point Secret Service. If mod points truly get out of hand, we're more likely to just remove them from the site completely.

-snip-

If somebody mods you down, it's not that big of a deal. Over time, your mod points are easily replaced, and unfair mods are just tiny dips in the graph. A more worthwhile effort would be getting people who have mod points to spend them more often for positive mods.

And then we have Oneiromancer over here going "hurf i will be da mod point sekrit poleece"

Yes, I'm being rude and insulting. Your downmods will be meaningless to me, so if there's something else in this post you take issue with, you'll have to give *gasp* non-anonymous feedback. I know, it's frightening, but it's an important part of growing up.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

---

[Last edited by Jatopian at 06-10-2009 10:15 PM]

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Jatopian wrote:
Yes, I'm being rude and insulting.

Being rude and insulting is, well, rude and insulting to those who you are speaking to.

I know, it's frightening, but it's an important part of growing up.

Another important part of growing up is to pass on wisdom without being brutal about it. Samuel's downmods aren't very important and can be ignored by everyone, but for eriks sakes, can we avoid making horrible impressions of people?

On the other hand, downmods should be ignored. Remember the "Unfair Moddowns Thread" by Neather2? That was anarchy, and in that thread, we established that rank points and mod points hardly mattered. Recently, threads have been going around about the forum fundamentals. This has happened before, and we established the exact same thing that time and this time. Rank points and mod points do not matter!

That is all.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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Jatopian wrote:
ITT NiroZ fails reading comprehension, fails to realize a post may address multiple points or sub-points.

First of all, I never claimed to address all the points in that post. Second, I pointed out that this was harassment, therefore requiring some scrutiny, which was my refutation to the point that there should be no scrutiny in the mod point system. So yeah, great comprehension there bro.

Third, why do you care anyway? You keep claiming that you above mod points, but then you don't want scrutiny? If your really above all of this, you wouldn't have even bothered posting. So quit giving the 'I'm all grown up, and moved beyond this' spiel. Forth, why are you so determined to give Oscar the grouch impressions? Sometimes its entertaining, sometimes sad, most of the time pathetic.

UrAvgAzn
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 468
Registered: 04-15-2006
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I say we just nip this in the bud before it escalates into a much more heated argument, like several other discussions already had. Aside from a few good ideas and repeated advice when situation "I hate downmods" arises, nothing productive is achieved. A few serious consequences occur as well (i.e. the leaving of a fellow member or someone getting their feelings hurt). It's important to make the lesson clear in explaining downmods, but not brutally so. If the explanation is condescending or hurtful, you're not helping the development of the member in any way at all.

We all have our views on modpoints, myself included (EDIT: Wow.. looking back at this post, I was 12 years old a long time ago..) , but let's leave others to figure out their interpretation of the modpoint system. I once read somewhere.. "You can't force someone to think what you want them to think. It's entirely their choice."

____________________________
"The leaf, still green, must someday fall.
Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
- T.A. Barron, The Lost Years of Merlin

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[Last edited by UrAvgAzn at 06-11-2009 12:49 AM]

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
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No more downmods. Nothing good has ever come from downmods. They're more likely to generate hurt feelings than learned lessons.

Allowing everybody the power to downmod is akin to asking everybody to behave as the police force. That's why we're all getting so pedantic about posting etiquette - we're becoming self-entitled enforcers. Give everybody a Taser, guess what: people are gonna get tased.

I'm glad Erik was cited in this conversation. He's absolutely right. We don't need to get down to the nitty gritty about how to enforce this business. We don't need to special-case the downmods.

And Erik's also absolutely right that mod points need to be removed if they get out of hand. They've gotten out of hand. Holding a fresh rankpoint argument every month is just silly.

So no more downmods. Just eliminate them. Buh-bye.

Edit: That is to say, Larry's right. Thanks for the link, UrAvgAzn.

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 06-11-2009 12:40 AM]

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
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oh god no. If down-mods go, we get rid of all of it. I've been on forums where there was only up-modding. We don't want to go there.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3407
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

That's really my only possible contribution to downmod arguments at this point.

____________________________

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Hay geys--I fund thiz awsum thred about downmodding. Itz hear:

Click me!

Seriously. Take all complaints there. And Jatopian--the reason that grumpy old men don't get visitors aside from family who want to stay in the will is because they're grumpy. I'm starting to skip your posts, because they've recently been generally bitter and not contributing to the forum.

____________________________

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged

Hey you know what? I have the perfect solution: Call upmodding Incrementing, and downmodding Bonking. Or something like that. Then change Bonking so it doesn't decrease rank, only alert you when you get bonked a few times in the same post (or maybe thread? Both on different amounts?) and of course is visible next to the post title and the increments, as a separate counter. Maybe, if it's really necessary, have bonking able to remove rank points if far too much happens, say five bonks and you drop one of 'dem blue pellets?

In other words, de-link the counters and make downmodding more of a post-by-post "Hey, don't do this if you want to be Incremented and gain Internet Respect" than an equal pain. This also makes upmodding always be the same general steady climb up the ranks that it tends to be, without worrying about the balance. Seriously, the system only works if there is a surplus of positive moderation.

As for the namechange... I just thought it would be helpful to make a name changing to indicate the way the proposed system would work: Much like a mild bonk on the head usually causes no permanent damage, but gets your attention, so would this system's bonking. And of course, Increment is a verb that works much nicer without an opposite than Upmod.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
IP: Logged

zex20913 wrote:
And Jatopian--the reason that grumpy old men don't get visitors aside from family who want to stay in the will is because they're grumpy. I'm starting to skip your posts, because they've recently been generally bitter and not contributing to the forum.

I totally agree, every post I see from Jatopian is just him being a jerk. And NiroZ, thanks for the offer of modding my posts back up, but don't worry about it, all but one of them have been modded back up. My intentions were when I made this topic was to alert people who aren't already aware of this little bugger whos floating around and downmodding us, and also to ask if it has happened to anyone else. Although it seems lately when I right a complaint topic Jatopian sends back a jerkoff reply. "I've been modded down before and I don't get all pissy about it!". Wanna guess who I'm pissy with at the moment Jatopian?

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon

---

[Last edited by Samuel at 06-11-2009 07:35 AM]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

You should probably send the posts that were downmodded and reupmodded to oneiromancer all the same, because the chances are that the person was just trying to cover their tracts. (After all, who else would want to correct their mod downs now?)

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

zex20913 wrote:
I'm starting to skip your posts, because they've recently been generally bitter and not contributing to the forum.

There isn't really a forum to contribute to, since I don't care for the RPG. So I contribute as much as anyone (except what, CSR?) these days. I mainly stick around in case that changes.

Samuel wrote:
Although it seems lately when I right a complaint topic Jatopian sends back a jerkoff reply.

It's spelled "write", and frankly you make too many complaint topics if you can establish a pattern like that.

Wanna guess who I'm pissy with at the moment Jatopian?

It's "whom", and you're pissy with me. What do I win?

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:

zex20913 wrote:
I'm starting to skip your posts, because they've recently been generally bitter and not contributing to the forum.

There isn't really a forum to contribute to, since I don't care for the RPG. So I contribute as much as anyone (except what, CSR?) these days. I mainly stick around in case that changes.

Are you kidding? There is a lot of forum to contribute to! If you look for it, you'll find it all.

I'm going to assume that you think that because the forum isn't so grand these days, that gives you an excuse to be a jerk. Do you want to make the forum grand again? Contribute something that other people can also contribute to. Oh, and this argument doesn't count.

Samuel wrote:
Although it seems lately when I right a complaint topic Jatopian sends back a jerkoff reply.

It's spelled "write", and frankly you make too many complaint topics if you can establish a pattern like that. Yes, but sending a jerkoff reply isn't helping anyone! You don't want Samuel to establish a pattern, but your constant replies make Samuel want to complain even more.

Wanna guess who I'm pissy with at the moment Jatopian?

It's "whom", and you're pissy with me. What do I win? Samuel was sarcastic, but you're following suit. You've still won nothing.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:There isn't really a forum to contribute to, since I don't care for the RPG. So I contribute as much as anyone (except what, CSR?) these days. I mainly stick around in case that changes.

Well lets see. I'm busy running the contests. mxvladi and braireos have been busy helping out at the H&S, agaricus5 is running around doing odd jobs on the forum, Nuntar helped out with the contests recently, Neather2 has been detailing his thoughts on complex complex, monkey has just finished an XP system. And that's just scratching the surface.

What have you done? Correct some spelling errors that samuel made? Wow, well that needed to be done, because that's not like trolling at all.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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Erm, please define how nothing I do goes right. And I don't meant that everything I run goes perfectly, but how everything goes wrong. And just because I was running the contests doesn't mean that Nuntar didn't help.

Help means to
1. To give assistance to; aid: I helped her find the book. He helped me into my coat.
2. To contribute to the furtherance of; promote.
3. To give relief to: help the needy.
4. To ease; relieve: medication to help your cold.
5. To change for the better; improve: A fresh coat of paint will help a scarred old table.
6. To refrain from; avoid or resist. Used with can or cannot: couldn't help laughing.
7. To wait on, as in a store or restaurant.

Are you saying none of those definitions define what Nuntar did?

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
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But at least all of the mentioned people do something. Aside from the occasional hint, what have you done? Countered an argument? Made a few angry posts?

Jatopian, you're apparent goals signify that you don't want the forum to prosper anymore. NiroZ stated that people do excellent things for the forum these days but you are countering his statement. Why? What good is it for you to continue this argument? Tell us why you keep posting these argumentative statements.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Don't worry, he's proving to the forum that he's a douche and a troll. Whenever in an argument with a troll, it's not about winning, worry about conveying your message to the audience.

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1306
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Please, let's drop this.
Samuel, if everyone stops caring about their old mod downs, then people will stop doing it. It's not that important anyway.
Jatopian, you're right that there isn't quite as much happening with DROD now. But it's still more than all of the posts when I joined (IIRC), and you joined before me. So why don't you look at, say, architecture? There's some stuff going on there, and if it isn't enough for you, you could try building your own hold. Seriously, I think that more argument isn't going to help anything.
NiroZ and 12th Archivist, insulting Jatopian is not the way to solve anything. Now I'm going to stop talking and hope that everyone else stops talking about this too.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
Registered: 11-14-2005
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Someone Else wrote:
NiroZ and 12th Archivist, insulting Jatopian is not the way to solve anything.

I don't think they were insulting him; I think they were stating the facts.

Wasn't Jatopian a human being at some point? When did he devolve into a troll?

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
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Tahnan wrote:
Wasn't Jatopian a human being at some point? When did he devolve into a troll?

Ah, yes, I remember those days. The forum was a better place then. The only person we had who could be considered a troll was good 'ol Banjooie (and he was and still is a pretty cool guy, if you ask me).

Woah, nostalgia trip.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 789
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Tahnan wrote:

Someone Else wrote:
NiroZ and 12th Archivist, insulting Jatopian is not the way to solve anything.

I don't think they were insulting him; I think they were stating the facts.

Wasn't Jatopian a human being at some point? When did he devolve into a troll?

Jatopian still is a human being. I don't believe he purposely starts up trouble just for the sake of trouble. His first post in this topic states that he had trouble like this before and he ignored it; perfectly harmless post. Unfortunately, it became an argument when NiroZ had a different opinion.

____________________________
It was going well until it exploded.
~Scott Manley

Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Take a walk through Jatopian's post history. We're not just talking about this argument.

UrAvgAzn
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 468
Registered: 04-15-2006
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I'm with Someone Else. This has gone too far. Seriously, look back at the posts in this thread.. We've questioned the contributions of various forum members without their consent, we've nitpicked grammar, and we've reminisced to a time when the forum was a better place. Ask yourself.. "Have we really stooped this far?"

I'm not going to join in and contribute to this already escalating argument. I'm just going to ask that we should stop arguing in public threads and, if absolutely necessary, continue in PM.

____________________________
"The leaf, still green, must someday fall.
Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
- T.A. Barron, The Lost Years of Merlin