Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
IP: Logged

Ok, it's a month that someone is modding me down unfair on each my comment on a hold board. I got down froum 250 and more to 240, and Syntax from 1024 to 900 and some in 24 hours.

What to do?

____________________________
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Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1379
Registered: 02-05-2003
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I vote for 'Stop worrying about it'. Who cares? It's a number. I have no idea how many points you have, and if I knew it wouldn't change what I thought about you. They're useful for showing some good posts throughout the forum, but besides that, there's no need to make a big deal about it.

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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Ahaha, dude, I still have like -200 or so in unjustified mod downs scattered all over. Who cares, it's just a meaningless number.

Don't let other people affect you, define yourself.

____________________________
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Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

Cry some more.

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NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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I hope it's not a meaningless number, otherwise the punishment effect of mod downs vanishes. And then we lose a very useful form of social control. One of the ways that many annoying forumers began to clean up their acts was realising how to avoid getting mod downs.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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Neather, I did a search of the holds board. I can't see the massive mod downs of syntax. There are two, but people seem to have had genuine reasons for modding him down.

As for yourself, there did seem to be some strange mod down, which I corrected. But there were quite a few that seem to have a legitimate reason to mod you down.

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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NiroZ wrote:
Neather, I did a search of the holds board. I can't see the massive mod downs of syntax. There are two, but people seem to have had genuine reasons for modding him down.

As for yourself, there did seem to be some strange mod down, which I corrected. But there were quite a few that seem to have a legitimate reason to mod you down.

Well, Syntax PMed me and said so. I don't know if it is true or not.

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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I sure hope it is a meaningless number, because otherwise you are giving social control over yourself to people with dubious credentials, validity and motives.

Most people do indeed use the system as intended, but the existence of a privileged caste sort of undermines the entire point. And this thread is a good example as well. Honestly, I'd mod Jatopian back up if I still used the system.

____________________________
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Paint the sky in crimson red!

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
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Maurog wrote:
I sure hope it is a meaningless number, because otherwise you are giving social control over yourself to people with dubious credentials, validity and motives.

I think the two issues of mod points and rank points are being somewhat conflated here.

On the one hand, rank points indeed do not correlate much with anything except your forum lifetime activity, which I think is what you are referring to.

On the other hand, I disagree that mod pointing (i.e. the giving of +/- something over a post) is completely meaningless (besides maybe the Forum Games board). The fact that negatives still cause concern in newer members of the forum suggests that it does have some effect on them. This effect may be either a good thing or a bad thing (I guess it depends on who said person is), but it's not meaningless.

Personally, I feel that post quality is being maintained in some measure by this system, as it appears to have done since it was implemented. I agree, there are mod-point abuses that are undermining the system, as well as people lying at the extremes that will (or claim to) ignore them and post regardless. However, for the majority (as you yourself say), the system appears to work, and the result is a forum with a reasonably high signal-to-noise ratio, with the occasional discussion about random modding and rarer spam.

In some respects, having people that can claim intelligently they don't care about other people's reaction to their posts demonstrates this. If most of the posts around here were junk, first, we likely wouldn't hear you, and second, the chances are that you wouldn't be reading the forum's posts anyway.

____________________________
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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3864
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

agaricus5 wrote:
On the other hand, I disagree that mod pointing (i.e. the giving of +/- something over a post) is completely meaningless (besides maybe the Forum Games board).

Indeed they aren't. For me, post modding is a way to appreciate somebody's post without using words. It's like showing that person a big thumb up (or two) in a way saying "Keep Doing it like that!" Or, in case of humorous post, it's just simple laughing out loud.
Or showing someone a finger while turning your head left and right like saying "Don't do that again."

In essence it is just nice to get appreciated by others and that encourages to actually THINK before posting anything.
On the other side, getting a negative point is much better than being scolded verbally. It's like being an eight-year-older (how do you even write that?) and we all are peers. If you start talking about his/her bad behavior, he/she will just ignore you. But a negative mod point is like the look of great disappointment in the eyes of loved mother .

Though as for rank points... Since you can get them from Forum Games or as prizes from contests they are indication of activity. And that's all I have to say about it.

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TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1379
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

By the way, I was referring to rank points as being irrelevant, not the ranking of individual posts. Neather2 seems to be more worried by the fact his rank points have gone down (true, this means posts are getting modded down, but I'm not seeing those posts).

In fact, I completely agree with skell.

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[Last edited by TripleM at 05-07-2009 12:12 PM]

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Which finger, skell? I'm guessing it depends on context.

____________________________

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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Maurog wrote:
I sure hope it is a meaningless number, because otherwise you are giving social control over yourself to people with dubious credentials, validity and motives.

If the credential is being a forum member, I don't see how it's dubious. It's like a form of voting. I doubt that this forum has dubious motives on the whole, and I'm not sure what you mean by validity.

Most people do indeed use the system as intended, but the existence of a privileged caste sort of undermines the entire point. And this thread is a good example as well. Honestly, I'd mod Jatopian back up if I still used the system.

If your talking about elitism, I'd agree. But to the best of my knowledge people are rather free with modpoints around newcomers. On the whole, I've yet to see a 'privileged class' emerge. There's just regulars and newcomers.

I'm surprised that jatopian isn't more sympathetic after this. And I'm surprised you support him maurog, as it smacks of the very 'privileged class' you speak of.

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
IP: Logged

NiroZ, i sent you a E-mail to reply to your PM becouse you don't accept them.

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

The privileged class is people with infinite mod points who do as they see fit, you guys know who you are.

I am not against a system with clear rules and people who enforce them with an iron fist. I am, however, against a system in which people make up rules as they go and do what they want. Policemen, not vigilantes with guns.

The very existence of someone who can break the system on a whim and done so several times invalidates the entire system, in my humble opinion.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

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[Last edited by Maurog at 05-07-2009 03:27 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3864
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

Maurog wrote:
The very existence someone who can break the system on a whim and done so several times invalidates the entire system, in my humble opinion.

Maybe it's because I rarely was here, but, among those with infinite mod points, is there someone who does or at least did such a thing?

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Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
IP: Logged

Oh, thank you very much NiroZ to fix my ranks back up to 255.

EDIT: What i did now say for get another time down by two?

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 05-07-2009 03:27 PM]

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

There are some examples in the old drama threads, skell.

Try searching for "Maurog's rank points" or something to that effect. But only if you're a masochist.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3425
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

Yay mod point whining!

If it's the number next to your name that's bothering you, why care?

If it's the fact that people don't like your posts, make better posts.

In your case, I'd focus on option 2. Off the top of my head, recently you've complained about the (fair!) ranking of your hold, your posts in Holds and Architecture seem to be more about bragging about your playing skill than about a review of the hold, and you've been intentionally disruptive elsewhere. While I'm not the one doing the modding down, perhaps, like the hold ranking deal, you should consider that maybe this is telling you something about your own behavior rather than just assuming that you're perfect and any criticism is unfair.

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Insane
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 154
Registered: 08-06-2005
IP: Logged

I liked the number 145... could somebody mod me down please? :'(

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[Last edited by Insane at 05-07-2009 04:30 PM]

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
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Neather2 wrote:
Well, Syntax PMed me and said so. I don't know if it is true or not.

I do remember that he hit 1000 not too long ago...

He's at 986 now, though, so someone must've modded him down quite a bit.

np: Can - Aumgn (Anthology (Disc 1))

____________________________
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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
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Maurog wrote:
The very existence of someone who can break the system on a whim and done so several times invalidates the entire system, in my humble opinion.

I think random modding can break the rank point system because the effect is permanent if not reversed, and much of the arguments swirling around it seem to be on the issue of having one's rank points decreased by, say 50, rather than, having 50 individual -1s. In that light, I would support the request to remove your rank point total from next to your posts and only have it appear in your profile.

However, negative modding seems to stir up debate with regards to post quality whenever it happens, so it nonetheless has the intended social effect, despite (or with the intention of) it being disruptive. In this case, Neather2 now has the opportunity to be told in words why negative mods might have been given, which is better than a flamewar of sorts.

I would argue the modding system is broken if we all stopped caring whether a post is -1 or +1, or if, in fact, -1s become encouraged. I can see how negative mod crusades might do this if they became commonplace, but clearly, this isn't the case. There may be an elite few that are disrupting the rest of us with inappropriate -1s, but as long as it's considered disruption and not a normal occurrence, I disagree that the system's broken.

Indeed, (theoretical) mod point disruptors are probably relying on the fact that there is a reliable reaction; I guess it may be considered fun to see the (mayhem) that only you know you've caused.



____________________________
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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 05-07-2009 05:05 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3864
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

Maurog wrote:
Try searching for "Maurog's rank points" or something to that effect. But only if you're a masochist.

*gave up on big rant*

I searched, I found, I read, and I am afraid I am not entitled to comment anything about it, since not all posts remain. Still, it was enlightening experience rather than masochistic voyage, albeit I would classify it to the 'rather dark past of this forums'.

Bah, I wanted to write something smart here, but it seems I used my daily limit. Let me only say, that I think agaricus is right and I wish I could phrase thoughts as well as he can.

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Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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Ok, ok, i'm not going to post here anymore about this. But i get another -3 in my comments on the hold boards. It sounds really bad.

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

NiroZ wrote:
I'm surprised that jatopian isn't more sympathetic after this. And I'm surprised you support him maurog, as it smacks of the very 'privileged class' you speak of.

That was 2006, kiddo, and I've never had even close to unlimited mod points. People learn as life goes on, and "don't give a crap about meaningless numbers" is one of those lessons.

At the most, the only reaction to a downmod anyone should have is that if they don't know why they got it they can ask. If no one can say "you did this and I disliked it", it's not worth worrying about.

____________________________
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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
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IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:
At the most, the only reaction to a downmod anyone should have is that if they don't know why they got it they can ask. If no one can say "you did this and I disliked it", it's not worth worrying about.

If you replace "at the most" with "in general", I'd agree with you.

In any case, some reasonably inflammatory words have been thrown around in here, so I would advise the next poster(s) to think carefully before sending a reply. Enough undesirable material has been posted in here already; let's not add to it if possible.

____________________________
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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 05-07-2009 08:57 PM]

12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

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agaricus5 wrote:

Jatopian wrote:
At the most, the only reaction to a downmod anyone should have is that if they don't know why they got it they can ask. If no one can say "you did this and I disliked it", it's not worth worrying about.

In any case, some reasonably inflammatory words have been thrown around in here, so I would advise the next poster(s) to think carefully before sending a reply. Enough undesirable material has been posted in here already; let's not add to it if possible.

Agreed. Let's just drop this matter. Getting riled up about mod downs is bad, but starting a flame war over it is worse. That may have to be added to the forum FAQ.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3864
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Just wanted to point, that in the future I think such problems should be resolved with Mods via PM.
That is all I had to say.

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aztcg7
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 104
Registered: 03-08-2005
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NiroZ wrote:
There's just regulars and newcomers.

Don't forget about the lurkers.


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In other news, is a considerably more stylish way to express sarcasm than , because everybody uses and I am /indie/. INDIE, I TELL YOU.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

yes, but to them mod points are irrelevant.

EDIT: same with spambots, incidentally.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 05-08-2009 12:18 AM]