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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Drei auf einen Streich
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adS
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icon Drei auf einen Streich (+1)  
In the attached position it is possible to shorten an adder by 3 tiles in one single move:



I wonder if any architect has used this behavior.

adS

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[Last edited by adS at 02-15-2015 03:40 PM]
02-15-2015 at 03:40 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
I don't know if I've seen this, but I know there are a couple rooms with other multiple shortening tricks.

This room from GJL is a good example.

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02-15-2015 at 04:22 PM
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larrymurk
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
Neat position.
02-15-2015 at 04:23 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
In one released hold I've used a similar position (without the sword strike) that shortens an adder two squares at once. In a soon to be released one I'm using a trick to shorten an adder by seven squares in a single turn. Eight also seems possible, but beyond that I'm not sure. With rattlesnakes it can get even crazier.

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02-15-2015 at 07:38 PM
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bomber50
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
I'd say about 15 sword strikes on an adder in one turn is the highest you could go. This excludes scripting, of course.

[Last edited by bomber50 at 02-15-2015 07:50 PM]
02-15-2015 at 07:49 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+2)  
Well, turns out it's not that simple. Shortening an adder 15 squares in one turn is indeed possible – tricky but not too hard to figure out. After some fiddling though, I managed to make a room where you can shorten an adder 20 squares in a single turn. There is no scripting involved. I'll put forth the challenge for anyone to match or improve on this result. Be warned though, my construction is pretty ridiculous.

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02-15-2015 at 09:21 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+1)  
Well, if to shorten him you allow ANY way to shorten him (using no scripting) I'll take the challenge, I managed to do 242 squares in one turn, but the number could be way, way more than that, it just requires some time to design the room.

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02-15-2015 at 10:21 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+1)  
Obviously no tricks with explosions/firetraps/whatever that remove the adder entirely are allowed. We're talking about some succession of interactions that shorten the adder one square at a time. All happen within a single turn, and at the end of the turn the adder is still alive.

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[Last edited by Jutt at 02-15-2015 10:56 PM]
02-15-2015 at 10:53 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
If you include insta-kills as shortening then the actual maximum is 1,214, which is an adder covering every tile in the room except two, the tile you are on, and a firetrap.

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02-15-2015 at 10:54 PM
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Red-XIII
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Ok, in this case I won't take the challenge :P
But I didn't used a firetrap, I used a bridge and thin ice (and the adder stays alive).
Still, I'm really interested in how you did it, could you PM me with the solution? :) I'm thinking about temporal clones but I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Kieran, my adder stays alive after he shortens :)

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 02-15-2015 11:31 PM]
02-15-2015 at 11:07 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+1)  
Oh, that's an interesting interaction with ice that I didn't know about. In my solution only the head is damaged.

I'm interested how long it takes anyone to find a solution. To keep things fair, I'll refrain from sending you my solution. Don't worry though, I'll post it if nobody manages to figure it out. But not before some effort on their part and perhaps me giving a few hints ;).

Oh, and the 15 square version is an easier one that's fun to solve. I recommend trying that one first, as it may give you an idea what approaches won't work.

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[Last edited by Jutt at 02-16-2015 12:36 AM]
02-15-2015 at 11:34 PM
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Insoluble
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File: Killing an Adder 2.hold (1.4 KB)
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+4)  
Okay, I played around a bit and made a room that will do 10 sword strikes on one turn. I can see how to expand this out to more, but I haven't done it yet. I also realized too late that i should have put the adder more towards the middle of the room. This is probably less elegant than your solution, but it works. (see attached)

Never mind the above. Attached is a hold that rises to the easy version of the challenge and does 15 sword strikes in one move. The first turn does 7 strikes, and the second turn (if you follow the directions in the scroll) does a whopping 15! I'm not sure I have it in me to go for the 20. Nice challenge Jutt! I probably spent way more time on this than I should have.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 02-17-2015 05:01 AM]
02-17-2015 at 03:15 AM
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File: Killing an Adder 3 The Search for Spock.hold (2.4 KB)
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+6)  
Sorry for the double post all, but I wanted to attach a separate file for this one for those interested in seeing the progress. Jutt threw down the gauntlet: Can anyone top 20 sword stabs at an adder's head in one move. Well, here it is folks. No fewer than 22 stabs at an adder's head in a single turn! Nothing up my sleeve. No scripting here. I didn't even use a hot tile.

Is there still room for improvement?
Probably, there is still empty space in the room.
Will someone come along and beat this?
Quite likely.
Should I have gone to bed a good three hours ago?
For sure.

But since it's done, I invite you to download the hold.

By the way, to get the desired results its South then Counterclockwise. South does 6 stabs, CCW does 22.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 02-17-2015 07:43 AM]
02-17-2015 at 07:43 AM
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Jutt
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File: Extreme Adder Shortening.hold (2.4 KB)
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (+4)  
Wow, impressive how you got it this fast and managed to improve on my solution as well! And I didn't exclude hot tiles or spike traps or blocking with another adder, so improving your solutions with an additional hot tile would be fair game.

I've attached a hold with my solutions for 15 and 20 (read scrolls for instructions). The first is actually fairly compact an easy to understand, without any arcane pushing mechanics. The second uses the same idea as both of your solutions, but with a different setup. Interesting is that the maximum number of strikes is only limited by the size of a Drod room, because otherwise these contraptions could be expanded to any size.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-17-2015 at 07:14 PM
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Insoluble
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Those rooms are beautiful Jutt! I love the simple elegance of your 15 stab room. It's such an efficient solution to the problem. For the 20 stab, we essentially have the same solution. And I agree, it's pretty neat that this construction could be carried out infinitely in theory. The main difference between your 20 room and my 22 room is that you set aside a good half of the screen to make space for the mimic columns to expand. If you use the idea of having them pushed into pits you free up that space for more stabbing machinery. Alas, I'm not up for the challenge tonight, but I look forward to seeing if anyone can come up with a room having 24 attacks at an adder's Head (since 23 is clearly possible).

EDIT: Congratulation skywatcher #86! I just saw that.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 02-18-2015 04:38 AM]
02-18-2015 at 04:36 AM
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Pinnacle
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
Things like this are a great reason to add a turn analysis mode.

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02-18-2015 at 04:41 AM
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Moo
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
Pinnacle wrote:
Things like this are a great reason to add a turn analysis mode.
Yup.
02-18-2015 at 04:35 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: Drei auf einen Streich (0)  
Pinnacle wrote:
Things like this are a great reason to add a turn analysis mode.
Moo wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Things like this are a great reason to add a turn analysis mode.
Yup.
Agreed. I did not see a feature request for this, so I created one quoting your post in that thread Moo. I hope you don't mind.
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=39427&page=0#393303

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02-20-2015 at 12:53 AM
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