Insoluble
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 09-04-2014
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I went to link to this feature request in another thread and was surprised to not find it. It was brought up before by moo here, but I do not believe we have a FR thread yet.

The idea is this: Have a mode that can be switched on that will allow turns to process in slow motion so that players can see the order in which monsters can move more clearly. Moo described it nicely in the post linked to above so I'll quote that post here:

Something that would help clarify what is happening in "unusual" situations, but probably too hard to add to the game as it is...
Some key you could press to view the last turn in "slow motion", so instead of the whole turn happening at once, everything happens in the sequence it happens. Maybe even with a visible way of seeing various "invisible" things, like roaches sliding along a wall due to it being in their preferred square, wraithwings detecting others, and so on... Because a lot of uninteresting things may be happening in a single move, and it could take a long time to watch it all, you could maybe select an individual creature (or the player) to see only those things that relate to that.

This is becoming ever more important as puzzles and elements get more and more complex. Levels like MoAR in which the puzzles rely on the order in which monsters move in a single turn would greatly benefit from this. In a world in which you can successfully perform 22 attacks on the same tile in one move, it would be nice to have a tool that could help us make sense of it all.

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karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 263
Registered: 03-28-2009
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+1 - I encourage the dev team to prioritize this enhancement: those double and triple push rooms in TSS The Shattered Mine are another place where such a feature would help immensely.

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When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
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I'd like to raise a particular point about this, because I haven't seen it said.

MoAR 2S1W is virtually impossible to solve if you don't know about movement order. The roach queens are scattered in an arbitrary order and a big part of the puzzle is lining them up in the correct formation and order. You aren't likely to stumble on that order naturally, because the initial arrangement of the queens is completely different from it.

However. To the best of my recollection, movement order is never explained anywhere in TSS. The only reference to it I remember at all is the scrolls in the secret rooms of Shattered Mine that tell you which mimic moves first. There is no informative scroll in the entrance to MoAR or in Construct Warehouse saying "Movement order is very important for some of these puzzles. Right-click on a monster and you'll see a number telling you when it moves."

Now imagine what happens when TSS is released on Steam. Thousands of puzzle enthusiasts will struggle their way through, frustrated and delighted at the same time, and then they'll hit MoAR, get completely stuck, ask for help... and be told that the answer involves a gameplay mechanic they had never thought about, because the game never gave them a reason to think about it.

It's not going to be a disaster, but it is going to mean that this room is widely regarded as unfair, and that's worth the effort to avoid.

I didn't find myself thinking that, even though I had trouble with the room, because I went diving into the forums before I registered and had played some other holds, including both Advanced Concepts. But when the game goes out on Steam, it's not reasonable to expect most of the players to do the same.

Turn Analysis is the best answer to this, because it allows movement order to actually be demonstrated intuitively. This also suggests it shouldn't simply be a hotkey - the player should have their attention drawn to it, and told as clearly as possible that this is something that can be helpful in more complex rooms. That said, if it's too complicated to program in, then make it a point to add some scrolls to TSS explaining movement order and how to check it.

bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
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I do agree some sort of tooltip for this could be useful.

The first room that uses movement order heavily is not actually MOAR, but WG 2N. A tooltip could possibly be added there.

Alternatively, right-clicking on tiles could be introduced early on (Oubliette maybe?) and the thing about movement order could be added in there.

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
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Good point. I didn't remember that room as vividly because the way it's set up allows you to experiment; even if you don't understand why the different groups of roaches move differently, you can see that they do and try to work out a solution based on that.

But I think that fact makes it even better suited as a room for explaining the concept. The movement order is less a critical piece of the solution and more of an explanation for an oddity that makes the solution possible.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3771
Registered: 12-28-2004
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While this would be an amazing feature to have, DROD's game logic would pretty much have to be rewritten from scratch to allow this. Sorry, never coming to DROD.

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Kalin
Level: Master Delver

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Could we have a more detailed breakdown of the turn phases? Right now the info is split between the beginning and end of the help page Mech of Mon Move and El Inter.

It would also be nice to show how it changes when a speed potion is active.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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While I agree we should have it somewhere in the help files, it's quite challenging to do so. I welcome everyone to contribute to Deadly Rules of Death and if we ever get it to a point where it's thorough and easy to understand I'll incorporate and adapt it for help files.

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