Tahnan
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Per Tim's suggestion, I'm starting a thread over here. The original discussion is here.

I'm not using the other "unfair mod down" thread because I think Dischorran's modding down of VIPCOOL's post is almost a red herring here (though I'm happy to see it discussed in this thread). The real issue, I think, is whether the downmod really was "unfair"--and that means discussing whether VIPCOOL deserved to be modded down for (a) his entry to the contest and (b) his subsequent post.

To save you a little clicking, his entry into the contest (a one-sentence cliffhanger and its one-sentence resolution) was:

So one day someone decided to participate in a contest just so they could be closer to receiving an 8-timer prize, but then something happened.

If you were expecting something good here then you shall be dissapointed since nothing happened and I fooled you.

and his modded-down post was

So...when's the list going to be updated? I'm waiting impatiently for my eight-timer prize

As I said over in the previous thread, I think Dischorran was wholly justified in modding VIPCOOL down over this, and I think there's little question that he was entering just to get the prize and not because he cared remotely about the contest.

The other topic of discussion that people might wish to continue over here is Tim's assertion that "the person who modded him down doesn't want to explain why he did it. And therefore it's an unfair mod down." I don't think this is true, personally.

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[Last edited by Tahnan at 05-10-2009 01:10 AM]

Lamkin
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Tahnan wrote:
I think Dischorran was wholly justified in modding VIPCOOL down over this...

Yup.

NiroZ
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Tahnan wrote:
For one thing, "the person who modded him down doesn't want to explain why he did it. And therefore it's an unfair mod down" isn't really accurate; not every downmod requires an explanation. For another, Tim got a little personal in calling the downmodder a "coward". For a third, his statement about the low scoring doesn't even make sense, given how many people scored VIPCOOL low and, well, the fact that the voters didn't need to decide themselves that VIPCOOL was blatantly gaming the system because he said so in his entry.

I was more referring to this

(is there some reason in particular why you so rarely make constructive posts?)

. Which, IMHO, is downright flamebaiting. And Tim didn't seem that fast to me, although that depends on how often you check the forums.

Besides, not that I agree that every mod down should be implicitly spelt out, but without the context of what the entry was about, the mod down was very confusing.

Never heard of the Guardians of the Flame. It's a fairly common phrase.

I guess you're right; 10 entrants with pretend entries are probably better than just two really good ones.

Quality isn't what were talking about. It's intent.

Personally I want to hear VIPCOOL justify himself.

Dischorran
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The flamebait was the "coward" line. My quote above was the flame. And yes, that's a "Well, he started it!" defense.

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TripleM
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I believe anyone is perfectly entitled to mod a post down without giving an explanation if they honestly have a good reason to do so, regardless of whether that reason is something everyone else agrees with. In this case the reason was perfectly obvious. In fact, I find people that deliberately go around 'fixing' mod-downs, without any thought as to the reason in the first place, slightly more annoying.

[edit]Now that I think about it.. I think I prefer the system which leaves modding up and modding down separate, showing the number of ups and downs. That way someone can disagree with a post without worrying about their opinion being wiped out if someone else differs.

Anyway, the only other thing I have to add.. I found VIPCOOLs contest entry quite amusing myself I may be in a minority on that point, but to me it suited the theme rather well.

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[Last edited by TripleM at 05-10-2009 02:53 AM]

Lamkin
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Tim wrote:
I can now safely conclude that the person who modded [VIPCOOL] down doesn't want to explain why he did it. And therefore it's an unfair mod down.

Lamkin wrote:
So, using that logic, any given mod down is unfair if it's unexplained?

Tim wrote:
I think it depends. It's fair to you if you can explain it yourself. But it's unfair to anyone else if they feel they cannot deduce that from the information at hand. And since we have too many downmods lately I'd prefer to check every one of them, even if I could be wrong.

Perhaps we should see the explanation as part of the courtesy of this forum. If I want to visit a forum that everyone don't like each other, then I have plenty to choose from. But I'd rather prefer a forum where the people I talk to can be considered as actual human beings, and that we could be at least honest and respectful to each other, worthy of at least an explanation if one is being modded down.

I think it depends, too, which is why I'd asked for clarification, but I still believe that Dischorran's downmod was quite fair and warranted prior to his explanation for having done so.
The name-calling (on both sides) and the remark about the quality of Tim's posts may have been a bit much, however.*
* I would never have done such a thing.

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[Last edited by Lamkin at 05-10-2009 04:26 AM]

Lamkin
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TripleM wrote:
Anyway, the only other thing I have to add.. I found VIPCOOLs contest entry quite amusing myself...

That's precisely why I'd given VIPCOOL the benefit of the doubt and not put up a fuss, as I think his sole intention was to be amusing. Now, to be honest, I'd given him a 1 in the voting because I didn't think he'd fulfilled any of the criteria for the contest, but I was willing to let it go after that—er...until now, that is.

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[Last edited by Lamkin at 05-10-2009 03:25 AM]

Insane
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Oh man, how I love this board.

The only place where a contest turns into a huge debate on whether or not some guy's post should be modded down or not.

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[Last edited by Insane at 05-10-2009 04:24 AM]

Banjooie
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Oh for god's sakes.

Okay. Here is the deal.

Someone is going to make a thread. It is going to be the generic 'huh, why did I get undelicious demod in this post', in which we link posts where we don't understand why we got negatives.

Someone may or may not reply with 'hay it might be this'. That person may or may not be the actual downmodder. There will be very firm anti-Banj laser turrets placed EVERY TEN FEET IN A CIRCLE AROUND THE THREAD. In addition to sating your inevitable conclusion that it will be a lollercaust to make such a thread, it will keep me from ever having to actually explain why I demod people. Not that I actually do that terribly often. I do like implying I do. It's fun.

Anyway, regarding the actual thread

Syntax
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TripleM wrote:
Now that I think about it.. I think I prefer the system which leaves modding up and modding down separate, showing the number of ups and downs. That way someone can disagree with a post without worrying about their opinion being wiped out if someone else differs.

That would definitely solve the issue IMO as it removes the "hidden info".

Beef Row
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Syntax wrote:

TripleM wrote:
Now that I think about it.. I think I prefer the system which leaves modding up and modding down separate, showing the number of ups and downs. That way someone can disagree with a post without worrying about their opinion being wiped out if someone else differs.

That would definitely solve the issue IMO as it removes the "hidden info".

That seems pretty reasonable as far as technical solutions go, and IF we had decided a technical solution was needed and were voting on which one, I would support it. And I'd add that forum titles should be based on highest dampness achieved, not current moisture levels.

However, this isn't that discussion, and it seems to me like any technical solution will be taking time and energy that could better be spent on things that aren't well, trivial forum bickering about arbitrary quantities. Is it really worth redesigning the forum to keep our fizzy damp away from our purple damp? I mean seriously, it seems like a sort of crap use of time.

tl;dr: TripleM's solution: good. Doing nothing: better.

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zex20913
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Seeing this discussion makes me think that VIPCOOL has created the best cliffhanger of all. It's several weeks after the contests' close, and we still don't know what's going to happen.

And downmods are at individual's discretion. Explanations are not necessary, and asking for explanations is whiny.

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Tahnan
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zex20913 wrote:
And downmods are at individual's discretion. Explanations are not necessary, and asking for explanations is whiny.

Someone downmodded this post, and now I can't even ask why. :-)

Jatopian
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zex20913 wrote:
And downmods are at individual's discretion. Explanations are not necessary, and asking for explanations is whiny.

Asking for explanations, when done properly, is saying "what did I do wrong and how can I fix it?" which is a laudable thing.

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Beef Row
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Jatopian wrote:

zex20913 wrote:
And downmods are at individual's discretion. Explanations are not necessary, and asking for explanations is whiny.

Asking for explanations, when done properly, is saying "what did I do wrong and how can I fix it?" which is a laudable thing.

Yeah, there's a definite and huge difference between sincerely asking why, and asking without really wanting an answer, but basically to challenge someone's right to their subjective opinion of your post. So the when done properly is a big element here, and why you can't just say asking is good, or asking is bad.

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zex20913
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Beef Row wrote:

Yeah, there's a definite and huge difference between sincerely asking why, and asking without really wanting an answer, but basically to challenge someone's right to their subjective opinion of your post. So the when done properly is a big element here, and why you can't just say asking is good, or asking is bad.

Note how I said neither good nor bad--simply whiny. Bad is a connotation there, sure, but not my explicit word.

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Sillyman
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Whiny is pretty much considered bad in today's society, kthx. Not that I approve of society's beliefs, but yeah.

Especially since being not-whiny is, IMHO, a large part of not doing it wrong.

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zwetschenwasser
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Tahnan wrote:

zex20913 wrote:
And downmods are at individual's discretion. Explanations are not necessary, and asking for explanations is whiny.

Someone downmodded this post, and now I can't even ask why. :-)

That is correct.

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Monkey
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Okay, is this thread epic fail, or epic win? I can't decide.

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Jatopian
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Given that it is not epic, I must say neither. The way you're going, though, you can probably push it toward the former with a bit of luck.

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12th Archivist
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I'd say this topic is epic bad.

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zex20913
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Perhaps ehpic.

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Dischorran
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I totally want this thread to be epic. Keep at it!

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Banjooie
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hint; if you have to ask, it's not epic