Mr. Slice
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We've been waiting for several months now. I don't like that most of my demos, holds, and any other thing that involves game exporting and versions can't be imported into a 3.1 version holder. Can we speed things up so this won't happen anymore? I really want for my demos and holds to be effective.

____________________________
"To see or to hear is to know, but to
do is to understand"

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[Last edited by Mr. Slice at 04-27-2008 03:35 AM]

Banjooie
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I can understand your frustration, but in general, it's best to avoid making patches official until everyone is absolutely sure. If you're tired of having difficulties with the beta version, consider downgrading back to 3.1, it may solve your problems.

RoboBob3000
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Banjooie wrote:
I can understand your frustration, but in general, it's best to avoid making patches official until everyone is absolutely sure. If you're tired of having difficulties with the beta version, consider downgrading back to 3.1, it may solve your problems.

So was it a stolen password or a head injury? I demand an end to this senseless altruism!

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 04-27-2008 07:57 AM]

TripleM
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Mr. Slice wrote:
We've been waiting for several months now. I don't like that most of my demos, holds, and any other thing that involves game exporting and versions can't be imported into a 3.1 version holder. Can we speed things up so this won't happen anymore? I really want for my demos and holds to be effective.

Why on earth would you install a beta version then? If you want the game to work, you install a released version. This is the entire point of a beta version.

Briareos
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
So was it a stolen password or a head injury? I demand an end to this senseless altruism!

I think the question you really wanted to ask was "Who are you and what did you do to Banjooie?"...

np: Micronaut - Minimist (45Tribute)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Banjooie
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I can understand your surprise at my changed demeanour, certainly--but by the same token, does that really merit derailing the thread?

Dex Stewart
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Yes.

mxvladi
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Mr. Slice wrote:
We've been waiting for several months now. I don't like that most of my demos, holds, and any other thing that involves game exporting and versions can't be imported into a 3.1 version holder. Can we speed things up so this won't happen anymore? I really want for my demos and holds to be effective.

I agree with you in parts. 3.2 is good patch, and it may become official in my opinion. But other people didn't decide to make it official patch. When it is fully tested, it'll become official.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 04-27-2008 07:22 PM]

Banjooie
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Hey, thanks Mxvladi! ^_^; I think you probably ended up explaining it better than me.

Ravon
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Banjooie wrote:
^_^

April fools was over almost a month ago.

calamarain
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Briareos wrote:
I think the question you really wanted to ask was "Who are you and what did you do to Banjooie?"...

I believe this could explain it...

Jekyll and Hyde

Though perhaps in reverse, this time.

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mrimer
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All right, guys...I think we've had our fun now. What would you label this phenomenon anyway -- reverse trolling, or still just plain trolling?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-28-2008 05:55 PM]

calamarain
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mrimer wrote:
All right, guys...I think we've had our fun now. What would you label this phenomenon anyway -- reverse trolling, or still just plain trolling?

Quantum trolling.

It looks like trolling until you look at it closely. But when you look away, you're not sure whether it was trolling or not.

Banjooie is indeed Schrodinger's Cat, and we are his cat toys.

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mrimer
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Oi, sorry...that's a hilarious response and worthy of posting, but I actually meant what do we call the way people are reacting to Banjooie's posts now (and not how Banjooie is behaving). I like Banjooie's posts. We know he's got cheek, and we also know he doesn't need to show it off all the time to be a formidable presence.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-28-2008 07:36 PM]

Monkey
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This thread needs moar snark.

____________________________
lurking

Banjooie
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Edit: Okay, I've been informed that I wasn't clear enough. I can make it clearer and get rid of the previously present fluff.

A distressingly high number of you are getting upset at a ten year old kid because he does not understand the intricacies of an open beta with release candidates and regular revisions.

Are you actually even considering...do you actually give a damn as to the results of your actions, who you hurt, how much you hurt them? You are legitimately upset. You are not making a joke because you know what, you want to see how clever a joke you can make based on the situation. You are actually trying to hurt his feelings.

You are trying, intentionally, to hurt the feelings of a ten year old boy because he does not grasp a concept that eludes many adults.

What. The. F***.

Announcement: The people you are talking with are actual human beings.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-29-2008 04:10 PM : censored, because we have to]

Beef Row
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Banjooie wrote:
You are trying, intentionally, to hurt the feelings of a ten year old boy because he does not grasp a concept that eludes many adults.

Its definitely worth taking a look at the difference in reception between this and Syntax's 'when will this be fixed' question about high scores. In both cases we have a frustrating situation which will be resolved when it is DONE. Admittedly, there's more potential to lay blame about the high scores, but the RC situation has become a hassle to everyone as it gets over adopted and people have to choose between being able to view everyone's holds and demos, and being able to create valid ones of their own.

Basically, in both cases we have a legitimate question about time, and Syntax gets ME TOO, ME TOO, ME TOO. Mr. Slice gets STFU N00B, UR PWNED!

And here's the sad part. In both cases the answer should probably have been "When it's ready". End of thread in three words, possibly followed by a progress estimate from Schick or from Mr Imer, respectively.

____________________________
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Mr. Slice
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Ok, I don't get if I'm on the good side or the bad side anymore. I don't exactly want to downgrade back into 3.1, but I also want to give demos on the H&S board to help. I can't say that I'm sad, angry, or happy, but I'm not an idiot. I'm just naive.

Oh, and my birthday was last month, making me 11 now.

____________________________
"To see or to hear is to know, but to
do is to understand"

Briareos
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Mr. Slice wrote:
I don't exactly want to downgrade back into 3.1, but I also want to give demos on the H&S board to help.

Well, I'm afraid that this is one of the cases where you can't have your cake and eat it too...

Either you go back to 3.1, or you can't give out demos on the H&S board that everyone will be able to watch...

np: Future Sound Of London - Through Your Gills I Breathe (Dead Cities)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

mrimer
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3.2 is done except for a few outstanding gameplay issues that probably ought to be addressed. I'm ashamed to admit it, though I probably shouldn't be, that I've been sitting on these reports thus far because I haven't decided how to resolve them. This includes issues regarding disarm tokens, gel growth, slayer entrances, and invulnerable NPC logic. Deciding how to handle these brings a lot of pressure and worry: Do I leave some or all issues as-is and have people think they're still bugs or bad features? Do I try to change or fix them and risk breaking rooms and demos, or introducing new bugs or behaviors that ultimately leave players unsatified? Will these issues have to be revisisted in 3.3, causing rooms and demos to be broken again?

I guess some of these issues just call for executive decisions to be made. I'm fine with doing that as long as everyone is fine with accepting what I decide. This isn't about me being defense here -- it's about worrying about making changes that people people unsatisfied. Please provide more feedback in those posts if you have anything you'd like to contribute.

How about I deal with the outstanding issues on the Bugs Board one way or another this week. In the mean time, if anyone wants to contribute bug fixes to marked topics there (please verify that your fixes work in your own builds with no side effects), I'd gratefully accept them. After these are taken care of, then I'll post a new build which will be a RC for another week. If no new issues are reported, then we'll call this the official 3.2. That will be a happy moment, because not only will we be able to upgrade everything to 3.2, but we can finally print CDs and ship the TCB Deluxe Edition with all its goodies, and also I will be able to start integrating new features into 3.3+.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

calamarain
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That sounds like excellent news, mrimer. Yes, there may be a few breakages, but I'm sure that the community can pull together to sort out/edit any rooms that are broken.

Plus... when it comes down to it, we're not in charge, the devteam is. We're not the ones who make the decisions

Urgh, just re-read that and it sounds like sycophantic flattery. Not what I meant - I meant that if you lot make a decision, we generally do have to accept it

Also... what is the precise issue with invulnerable NPC logic?

____________________________
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[Last edited by calamarain at 04-29-2008 04:42 PM]

mrimer
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calamarain wrote:
Also... what is the precise issue with invulnerable NPC logic?

Responded in that thread.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

CuriousShyRabbit
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It's great to hear that 3.2 is almost ready. I'm very much looking forward to that patch because of the game crashes and data loss problems it's supposed to fix.
* I will be so happy when the game stops crashing every two minutes on days when my internet connection is intermittent.
* I will be so happy when I don't have to keep reconquering rooms that DROD forgot I conquered when I import new versions of holds.

The last few gameplay issues on the to-do list seem very minor from my point of view. I'm not sure what the bang to buck ratio would be for fixing them. I wonder how many people even consider all these to be "bugs" rather than just "quirks." 2 people? 5 people? 15 people? Surely there are more productive ways to use talented developers' valuable time and energy than tweaking those last few issues. Rabbit's brief opinions:
* Disarm tokens - Leave behavior as is. It's got great puzzle potential.
* Gel growth - Yes, the existing behavior doesn't entirely make sense, but the situation can arise in so many rooms that are already published, it would be impractical to change it. Leave behavior as is. Graphics could be changed later, if desired.
* Slayer entrances - Can be fixed later, if desired. For now, architects can avoid creating this situation.
* Invulnerable NPCs killed on turn 0 - Can be fixed later, if desired. For now, architects can avoid creating this situation.

Just my opinion, which is intended mainly as encouragement. Feel free to ignore.

NiroZ
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Mr. Slice wrote:
Ok, I don't get if I'm on the good side or the bad side anymore. I don't exactly want to downgrade back into 3.1, but I also want to give demos on the H&S board to help. I can't say that I'm sad, angry, or happy, but I'm not an idiot. I'm just naive.

Oh, and my birthday was last month, making me 11 now.

If you're not using vista or mac, I think you can just copy your DROD directory somewhere else and then install it again. Thus having both 3.2 and 3.1.

Of course, I'd recommend you wait around until someone confirms this, as it would suck if I'm wrong.

Jutt
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Gel growth - Yes, the existing behavior doesn't entirely make sense, but the situation can arise in so many rooms that are already published, it would be impractical to change it. Leave behavior as is. Graphics could be changed later, if desired

I have to disagree here. From your average gel blob it is highly unlikely to reach a similar state. It will probably only get formed when you're looking for it, so changing rules won't really pose a threat to solvability of rooms or corruption of high-scores. But if we leave it as is, current mechanics will probably only allow for nasty unintended solutions and very evil rooms.


____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

Syntax
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Beef Row wrote:
In both cases the answer should probably have been "When it's ready". End of thread in three words, possibly followed by a progress estimate from Schick or from Mr Imer, respectively.

A lack of progress estimate was entirely the source of frustration. I think most of us had come to accept the "when it's ready".

Elfstone
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I have a question apropos of this thread (I think) - will I be able to jump from 3.0 to 3.2 direct? Now that I have broadband I could download 3.1, and in fact I had been thinking about doing that to play Neather's new hold, among others, until I read this thread. However if 3.2 is imminent, and I can jump to it from 3.0, then I'd be as well to wait.

____________________________
Winner of: Novice Architect Excellence 2006.
FAPCA - Technical Design Excellence in Layout and Aesthetics