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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Equine Enterprise (Hold your horses - here comes Beethro!)
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Author Name:DyingFlutchman
Submitted By:Dying Flutchman
Hold Name:Equine Enterprise
Theme:Hold your horses - here comes Beethro!
Author's Difficulty:
Number of Levels:1
Number of Rooms:27
Number of Monsters:189
Version:DROD: The Second Sky (5.0.2)
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Hold Karma:2 (+2 / -0)
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File: 2020 04 15 - Equine Enterprise.hold (3.8 MB)
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icon Equine Enterprise  
Beethro is curious about an exhibition on strange new animals.

He decides to take a look and - of course - he brings along his Really Big Sword. Just to be sure.
04-21-2020 at 04:08 PM
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Dying Flutchman
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+2)  
Tested by:
Disoriented
Hyperme
Camwoodstock

Voices provided by:
Averagemoe
Disoriented
Someone Else

HA'd by:
Dischorran
Navithmastero

Huge thanks to all of you!

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[Last edited by Dying Flutchman at 04-21-2020 04:15 PM]
04-21-2020 at 04:14 PM
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mxvladi
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File: uhhh.png (1.1 MB)
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
Pretty sure if you reenter 4S 1W from SE entrance without clearing it first, you can't clear it (pp you need to deal with roach is in northern part of the room) *or* backtrack to northern entrance. Unless I'm missing something.
EDIT: Re comments below this post - I kind of disagree with the reasoning (even following it - technically I still have to restore and replay 4S 1W itself in this case, which is a required room), but whatever. If I was a tester I would assume that this would be considered a backtracking issue.
Btw, a fix which wouldn't break anything in 4S 1W is adding a way out via 4S (with N force arrow so you can't access 4S 1W through there, but can only escape).

For now I'll leave it here as a warning in case anyone else tries to pull this off.

[Last edited by mxvladi at 04-21-2020 09:17 PM]
04-21-2020 at 05:48 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
mxvladi wrote:
Pretty sure if you reenter 4S 1W from SE entrance without clearing it first, you can't clear it (pp you need to deal with roach is in northern part of the room) *or* backtrack to northern entrance. Unless I'm missing something.
No, but you can't get to any required rooms that way either so I'm reasonably sure you won't be in a position where you have to re-solve rooms after restoring. Which is what we're really trying to avoid with backtracking issues.

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04-21-2020 at 06:11 PM
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Dying Flutchman
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
mxvladi wrote:
Pretty sure if you reenter 4S 1W from SE entrance without clearing it first, you can't clear it (pp you need to deal with roach is in northern part of the room) *or* backtrack to northern entrance. Unless I'm missing something.

I guess you're right, it's very easy to fix with a force arrow. Won't invalidate demos. Will add this fix asap.

Not fixing this. As stated above, it isn't possible to have to restore to access required rooms. Fixing this will actually break the puzzle, so better leave it as it is.

Tnx for noting though!

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[Last edited by Dying Flutchman at 04-21-2020 07:49 PM]
04-21-2020 at 06:14 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+2)  
Okay so backtracking issues (or non-issues) aside - conquered/mastered/postmastered.

Going to hand out a 10 for the amount of effort it probably took to script this element, including interaction with other things. Also for a long time I was really curious to see how a monster like this would work in DROD, so thanks for actually making a live demonstration.

The puzzles themselves are okay and work pretty well as a showcase of monster's various properties. Wouldn't say there's anything extremely difficult here - I would even go as far as to say that majority of the rooms are on the easier side once you get hang of the custom monster's behaviour - but I suppose a room or two may be a bit tricky. Don't really have any major complaints. Although I'm pretty sure I broke a room or two :P

Well done overall!
04-21-2020 at 09:12 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
On the above issue: A force arrow in 4S should allow a way back without breaking anything. You have to get to the middle to start 4S anyhow.

Of course, it's up to you whether to do that or not.
04-21-2020 at 11:06 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
Another backtracking issue: In 3S2E, if you clear the room, hit the seeding beacon, and leave to the east, the green door goes back up when you return and you can't get back. Adding a path at (34,17) with a force arrow would fix this, though I'm not sure offhand how the horses would move if someone started there.

The room to the east is required, but it's also more of a demonstration than a puzzle and not especially tedious to redo. Still, seems worth noting.
04-22-2020 at 07:23 PM
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Dying Flutchman
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File: 2020 04 22 - Equine Enterprise.hold (3.8 MB)
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+1)  
Dragon Fogel wrote:
...Adding a path at (34,17) with a force arrow would fix this, though I'm not sure offhand how the horses would move if someone started there...

Unfortunately, this makes 3S2S trivial. So I guess this will go into the 'sad-mistakes-that-seem-to-have-limited-impact-box'.

However, I think your force arrow in 4S suggestion does work.
Also, I get a request from Nuntar for some specific checkpoints. Will make an update and ask HAs nicely to upload it.

EDIT: new version attached.
1) Added tunnel in 4S to get out of secret area if 4S1S was uncleared.
2) Added some checkpoints to 2S1E
3) Moved some checkpoints in 3S
4) Added return stairs in 3S2E when stuck behind green doors. (I considered this solution too 'ugly', but whatever. By popular demand [below] it's now included :) )

Discussed 2/3 with Nuntar.
For all changes, I can't see any way for those edits to break demos.

:kissSo: dear HA-people, would you mind updating the hold? Many thanks!:kiss

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[Last edited by Dying Flutchman at 04-22-2020 11:18 PM]
04-22-2020 at 09:03 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+1)  
I guess the simplest thing would be to add an emergency escape staircase, then. I thought about adding a pressure plate to 3S2E to close off the east side if you hit the beacon, but there was a slight possibility a horse might hit it in an existing demo.

(If that doesn't happen, though, then consider that an alternate option. But a staircase in the trap area or 3S3E which returns you to the main area should definitely work without breaking anything.)
04-22-2020 at 09:54 PM
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bbb
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+1)  
If you are editing the hold anyway, you can add the following challenges:

Click here to view the secret text


Interesting hold.
04-23-2020 at 12:35 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
bbb wrote:
4S1E - Don't use token. (Also use only 3 mirrors.)

Do you mean 5S1E? I don't see how to do 4S1E without the weapon token.

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04-23-2020 at 09:13 PM
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bbb
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
disoriented wrote:
bbb wrote:
4S1E - Don't use token. (Also use only 3 mirrors.)

Do you mean 5S1E? I don't see how to do 4S1E without the weapon token.

Correct. That room doesn't even have mirrors.
04-23-2020 at 09:38 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
for 5S 1E you don't need to use any mirrors at all, 3 is an overkill :P

Since we're speaking about challenges, here's an interesting alternate solution for 4S.

Also I'm not sure if updating a published hold to add new challenges is a good idea. Although I guess if it's together with tweaking the backtracking stuff maybe it might be okay? (if it gets updated at all, that is).

[Last edited by mxvladi at 04-23-2020 10:00 PM]
04-23-2020 at 09:52 PM
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bbb
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (0)  
I just managed with one mirror and no staff.

I also just managed with three mirrors but
Click here to view the secret text

04-24-2020 at 04:34 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Equine Enterprise (+1)  
Id recommend against adding challenges or anything else besides the necessary fix at this point. Youd be risking introducing more problems, and its not fair to the HAs to add a bunch of stuff theyd have to re-review.

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[Last edited by disoriented at 04-24-2020 06:03 AM]
04-24-2020 at 06:03 AM
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