Vike91
Level: Master Delver

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Hi,

We in the CaravelNet chat have been discussing about chatting possiblities.
We think we should have a DROD chat available for everyone to get in touch with other people quickly.

So, I think it would be handy and good if there would be a free chat open for everyone, accessible on the site.

Schik, what do you think?



Meanwhile,
I've opened an IRC channel at irc.quakenet.org, channel #drod.
You can access it at http://webchat.quakenet.org .

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[Last edited by Vike91 at 01-01-2014 09:13 PM]

slimm tom
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If I remember correctly we had quite an active IRC channel a couple of years ago, not sure why people stopped using it then.

Vike91
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slimm tom wrote:
If I remember correctly we had quite an active IRC channel a couple of years ago, not sure why people stopped using it then.

Maybe because people are maturing and stop playing DROD

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Pinnacle
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I'm assuming a large part of the decline in activity is the huge gap between TCB and TSS*. A major release adds a ton of new elements for architects, which means holds are being released frequently, which in turn keeps people playing, which keeps the community active. With JtRH and TCB only 2 years apart, there was a ton of momentum. The early TCB era was the peak of community activity. DROD needs new elements to keep architects creative, and architects are needed to create holds for people to play. A lot of the top players right now have completed everything, at which point there's less reason to play, and less reason to be active in the community. It's a chain reaction that requires the steady introduction of new elements to the game. It's like a CCG that stops getting new cards, or a MOBA that stops getting new characters.

TSS will be the first major influx of new elements in seven years. Hopefully that helps.


*Nothing against GatEB, but it only introduced a few new elements, and it's more of a sidestory than a continuation of the core series.

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 01-01-2014 10:14 PM]

Nuntar
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That's one way to look at it, but a case could be made for the flip side as well. No matter how good the games are, a certain percentage of players and architects are going to get invested for a while, then move on to something else. To keep the community alive, there has to be a steady influx of new players. And DROD has a very high entry barrier because there are so many elements.

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navithmastero
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Nuntar wrote:
No matter how good the games are, a certain percentage of players and architects are going to get invested for a while, then move on to something else.

That's true for any game that someone plays, but people are more likely to stay hooked if there is a steady flow of updates - as Pinnacle said. This, in turn, will lead to a higher intake of new players. Perhaps a more major release every 18 months or so would be better than the more widely spread time we have seen between TCB and TSS. Not that we can change anything about TSS now, but if Caravel continues to program games after DROD, I think this is more ideal if they want a higher intake of new players, and more sustained level of old players.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 01-02-2014 10:32 AM]

Schik
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My biggest concern about free chat for everyone would be the increased amount of moderation it would require. From auto-spammers to malicious individuals, I'd have to wonder if the benefit would outweigh the trouble.

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Vike91
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Schik wrote:
My biggest concern about free chat for everyone would be the increased amount of moderation it would require. From auto-spammers to malicious individuals, I'd have to wonder if the benefit would outweigh the trouble.

This issue will be solved by seeking some moderators to control the chat.

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12th Archivist
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Schik wrote:
My biggest concern about free chat for everyone would be the increased amount of moderation it would require. From auto-spammers to malicious individuals, I'd have to wonder if the benefit would outweigh the trouble.

Perhaps giving people who have payed for a CaravelNet subscription some administrator privileges would be useful, such as if two or three or more members voted to block a spammer, that person would be banned from the chat. It might be abusable (coughSethcough), but it might be a good way to delegate administration so Schik doesn't have to be monitoring 24/7, or be constantly bothered by complaints.

My real point is that I'm hugely in favor of this, but it shouldn't become too serious an issue. There shouldn't ever be a chatroom police, or a chatroom court to deal with offenders. Something tells me that Schik having to deal with any of that wouldn't make him angry, or upset. It would just make him tired. So while I think opening the site-side chatroom to non-subscribers would be beneficial to the community, I also don't want to brutally sacrifice Schik in his sleep for it.

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Dischorran
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Just give the HAs chatmod abilities. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG???

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mrimer
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SOLD!!!

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Moo
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An official IRC channel would be good. Perhaps with a web client page on the site. But...
Paid-for "chat rooms" died out in the 90s, or should have... Some may say the same about IRC, but I wouldn't.

A major problem with any chat is getting enough people to stick around long enough for enough momentum to build up so the channel can grow. People come, see it's too empty/quiet, and leave again... Without people sticking around even when it's quiet, there will never be much activity. A pay requirement greatly reduces possible audience. You may think this is fine, as it reduces need for moderation etc, as only "dedicated" people would be there... But means less chance of momentum building, and raises entry barriers.

As for moderation... Kicking spammers and troublemakers isn't hard. If people are able to play DROD, they should have no problem figuring out how to use IRC. Perhaps people have an outdated idea of how IRC is - problems aren't common. A DROD channel is unlikely to attract idiots, especially if a sensible network is used (Freenode? DROD is basically open source). If the problem is more that there isn't anyone sensible around a lot of the time, then see previous paragraph. The ideas already given would probably work fine. An active (but somewhat chaotic? I guess that was the implication) channel is better than a dead one.

Perhaps a more inventive solution would help. The bot could only relay messages from people who are voiced in the channel. That could be earned by not being an idiot. That way people wouldn't need to worry that their nice restricted chat would be invaded by "riff-raff".

skell
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Tim
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I think people here are overthinking too much.

There is the in-game chat. And even though it is currently not being used very extensively, it will likely change.

I predict (and as one of the winners of the prediction contest, I'm pretty good in it) that the (in-game) chat will be crowded again later this year.


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Elfstone
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Thought I might put in my tuppence-worth. I have no idea what an IRC is and, having lived this long without it I suppose I can live a while longer without it.

We have Chat, so do we need another? There are times when I go in and there are only one or two others there. There are times - not often - when I go in and say 'good morning/afternoon/evening' and there is silence. There are times when I go in and there are lots on the list and the chatter is great fun. I love it - I love the varying opinions on a diverse range of subjects; I love the crossed over, mixed up conversations; I love the silly jokes and the gentle teasing which is so often part of it; I love the access to almost instant help when I'm struggling with rooms (doffs cap to mxvladi and skell in particular). I suspect that the differences noted above are mostly to do with timexones (sic) and I have often regretted having to leave Chat late in the evening when conversations are interesting, just because I need sleep.

I suspect that if there were to be another Chat, the same would apply. Having a Second Chat does not mean having a Better Chat - in the way that those of us old enough to remember will tell you that when there were only 3 TV channels, the choice of programmes available was arguably just as good (better?) than now when there are hundreds of them; the quality is just spread thinner nowadays. One runs the risk of dividing loyal Chatters by having a second Chat - the effect of spreading thinner - not a good thing.

There may be something I am either overlooking or don't understand in this discussion and I stand to be better informed if that is the case.


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[Last edited by Elfstone at 01-22-2014 04:02 PM]

Moo
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Two unconnected chats is probably not going to work well, due to splitting, duplication, etc...
Two connected chats, however, could work well. It'd basically be one chat with two parts, rather than two chats. With a bot to relay between them, you could have the advantages of both systems. A lot of games have active IRC channels, especially indie games (where the developers tend to be more community-friendly), be they official, semi-official, or even completely unofficial... IRC clients are easily available for all kinds of platforms, and more suitable for idling (and thereby building an active user base) than website or in-game chats...
Having your chat behind a paywall may be helpful in terms of keeping out troublemakers (this seems to be the only real concern raised here), but it also keeps out a large proportion of your players (and potential players), who are unable or unwilling to pay for it.

Panther
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Moo wrote:
Having your chat behind a paywall may be helpful in terms of keeping out troublemakers (this seems to be the only real concern raised here)...

I thought I'd posted here, but apparently not. I'm against removing membership requirements for chat in large part because it is my understanding that CaravelNet membership is the majority of Caravel's revenue stream, and it is also my understanding that a large number of CaravelNet members have their membership solely for access to CaravelChat. There is very little here that is not free. Considering the cost of other pay for access game sites/resources out there, a dollar a month seems like a steal to me. (Mind you, this isn't my only reason for preferring things as they are, but it's the major one.)