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khaim100
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10-09-2010 at 10:01 AM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
Interesting hold. The use of cutscenes was well done.

I thought a lot of the monsters, lights, and walls were randomly placed, but we've come to expect that now in war holds.

In 9 West, if you leave the room going west before killing all the wraithwings, the green door closes again and you can't solve the room. This isn't a big problem, though, as there are no blue doors in the hold that require every room to be solved. Not any that I saw, anyway.

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10-09-2010 at 07:31 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
I've also played through this one.

Potential issues:
9W - As 12th Archivist says, you can run through this room without solving it.

3S3W - If I enter this room on the wrong square, the cutscene starts, and I get killed before I have the opportunity to step back out of the room. I have to Restore to the previous room. Because I have to restore, this needs to be fixed.

6S2W - If I exit west before killing all the monsters, I cannot return without getting killed by all those aumtlich, so I am forced to Restore here too.

4S1E - If I exit west, I end up standing on the green door in 4S, and cannot move north or south. If I am unlucky enough to be in the middle of the wall, I cannot return to 4S1E without being instantly stepped on by a slayer. I have to Restore here too.

4S - There is no way to enter this room from a position where I can conquer it.

A Question:
In 6S4W, what does "higata lebet kvarot hakever hagadol" mean?

Other comments:
Click here to view the secret text

10-10-2010 at 07:24 AM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
yea ok.
i fixed the backtrack you guys mention.
i fix the other stuff.
"you arrived at the cemetary" is what my son wrote there
ive no idea how you solved 5w 'mimic free'. use it by your side and clean even the east queen line.
i fix those extra rooms also. just a bit more scripting
i also like the queens. you have a sense of acomplishment when you know they are killed in the background.
for the briar i didnt realize your easy solution, but its elegant
10-10-2010 at 11:46 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: war0 (+1)  
In the new 4S1E, I really don't see how I can detonate the bombs to kill the last 2 eyes and adder. There is no activation token. Is there a trick?
10-11-2010 at 12:07 PM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (+1)  
you go down left the adder kills them :?
10-11-2010 at 07:44 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
On the bottom part of the room is a big room with many eyes, an adder and bombs. West of it is a small room with 2 eyes, a secret wall and a bomb.
The adder can kill all the eyes in the big room, but not those in the small room. I need to detonate the bombs to kill the adder and the last two eyes.

10-12-2010 at 01:03 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
Zorglub is correct. Player role stalwart cannot activate fuses without a power token.
10-13-2010 at 01:24 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
Gosh, it's like the architect doesn't playtest these rooms before uploading, or something crazy like that.

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10-13-2010 at 01:50 AM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
i put in the power token.

Jatopian, youre always whining about something. rough chidhood? :glasses
this the first time i reply to you so consider it a favor. other favors wont follow
10-13-2010 at 09:12 PM
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khaim100
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File: war0.hold (29.4 KB)
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
there
10-13-2010 at 09:24 PM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: war0 (+1)  
Why does the hold appears as a new hold (though with the same name), instead of a new version of the previous one?

10-14-2010 at 12:15 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: war0 (-2)  
khaim100 wrote:
i put in the power token.

Jatopian, youre always whining about something. rough chidhood? :glasses
this the first time i reply to you so consider it a favor. other favors wont follow
Oh gosh, the troll talked to me. Such an honor omg bbq. What if I did have a rough "chidhood", troll? What's it to you?

Anyway, I think we've learned an important lesson here today: If you don't playtest your holds, anyone who complains is whining. Be sure to tell that to your Hold Administrators when they request that your holds actually be solvable. Those demanding jerks.

Edit: lol, look at these cowards. They can toss negative numbers at me, but they can't make khaim right.

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DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

[Last edited by Jatopian at 10-14-2010 07:07 PM]
10-14-2010 at 05:59 PM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: war0 (+1)  
OK, let's calm down and go back to being excellent to each other. Mmkay?

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10-14-2010 at 10:13 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
Edit: lol, look at these cowards. They can toss negative numbers at me, but they can't make khaim right.
But you *are* always whining about something, no?

Also, the initial war holds were long before I was playing DROD. Cool to see them coming out again.

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10-14-2010 at 10:54 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: war0 (-2)  
Dischorran wrote:
But you *are* always whining about something, no?
No. Although I certainly could fuel a nonstop whinefest and have plenty left over, with comments like that becoming the accepted norm on this rundown forum.

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Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
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10-14-2010 at 11:10 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
Yes, I have singlehandedly altered the forum norms. Banjooie has nothing on my community-changing powers. This is a comprehensive explanation of the problem, full of sound and fury, simplifying nothing.

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Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
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10-14-2010 at 11:37 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: war0 (+5)  
Take the petty bickering out of this thread, and somewhere it belongs - like PM or emails.

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10-14-2010 at 11:42 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: war0 (+5)  
Back on topic:

Zorglub wrote:
Why does the hold appears as a new hold (though with the same name), instead of a new version of the previous one?
This is because khaim used a different player profile to edit a copy of his hold instead of the original hold. The copy has a new hold ID, so DROD thinks it's a new hold, even though all the rooms are the same except for 4S1E.

I can use one of the HA tools to revert the hold ID so it matches the ID of the hold at the top of this thread. This would make the fixed hold import as an update to the hold we've already played. But if I did that, khaim's new player profile would no longer be able to edit it. So I won't do anything, unless khaim specifically requests that I change the hold ID.

If I don't revert the ID, we'll all just have to play the entire hold again.
10-15-2010 at 01:33 AM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
Thanks for the explanation CSR. I just played it again.
I also solved 5W mimic free.
Didn't see the issues mentionned earlier by CSR.
10-15-2010 at 08:18 AM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (+1)  
i sometimes edit from the mobile by downloading, i believe with the same profile as the desktop. weird stuff can happen i know. if its not anyone edit you can actually block yourself out.
which reminds me, does anyone know where is the 'second' war15? there was one rejected i dont have it
10-15-2010 at 10:14 AM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
...

<3
10-16-2010 at 08:35 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
I've played the new version too, and confirmed that the hold is completable again.

But, there are still a few of those pesky bugs!

2S1W - In playing around further with this room, I found that if I step on the pressure plate after the bomb explodes, the game gets stuck in an infinite cutscene.

6S2W - Using the classic tarstuff cutting trick, I can still exit west without conquering the room. And then, when I try to return, I'm stuck (overwhelmed by monsters). Since there is no puzzle to the west, it may be best not to let me go there at all. If you need a green color to block my passage west, how about some bushes?

Oh, and I think maybe I like the new 4S. An interesting play with movement order.

------------------

About player profiles and hold IDs. Those are complicated. I needed help from Stefan to understand it myself. Hold ID depends on hold creation date and the player who created it. And your player ID depends on the player name and player creation date.

So if you go to another computer and make a new player with the same name as your old player, it won't have the same player ID because of the different creation dates. Holds that "belong" to the old player won't "belong" to the new player. If you want to share a player profile between two computers, you should do the following:
1. Export your player file from your original DROD installation. (This option is available in Change Player).
2. Import all the holds you played or worked on into your new DROD installation.
3. Import the original player file into the new DROD installation. This retains the player creation date and the player ID. You'll have ownership of all the same holds on both computers.

When you edit a hold that "belongs" to your player, DROD allows you to work freely. But when you edit a hold that doesn't "belong" to your player, DROD asks you if you would like to create a copy of the hold that you can edit. When you say "yes", you are resetting all the information that determines the hold ID. The hold creation date changes and the player associated with hold creation changes.

(The HA tools are indeed showing a different hold creation date, different architect player profile creation date, different architect player name, etc. for the new version of this hold.)

----------------

EDIT: Looks like wallu found the other war15 hold. Thanks, wallu. :)

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 10-16-2010 09:58 PM]
10-16-2010 at 09:59 AM
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khaim100
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File: war0.hold (29.5 KB)
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
i believe these resolved - the two rooms
10-16-2010 at 10:32 PM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
thanks wallu this is it
10-16-2010 at 11:00 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: war0 to serve and to protect 2S1W - infinite cutscene.demo (1 KB)
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icon Re: war0 (0)  
That square of oremites neatly fixed the problem with 6S2W. Good job!

2S1W is still not what you want. If a monster activates the pressure plate after turn 91, but fails to kill Beethro (as in the attached demo), the player still gets stuck in an infinite cutscene.

(Note: I got bored, and cut off the demo after about 1000 turns.)
10-17-2010 at 12:26 AM
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khaim100
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
now resolved - i just wait for the plate to activate before counting
10-19-2010 at 03:28 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
(Hold ID has changed again.)

Yep, 2S1W is fixed now. :) I can't get stuck in an infinite cutscene anymore. (At least I don't think I can.)

There are a couple little things I noticed this time, that I'll just mention for completeness' sake. Since there is no blue door at the end of the level, these don't need to be changed.

6S3W - You can run through this room without solving, using the tarstuff cutting trick. You can then solve it with sword instead of fegundo from the top left entrance.

Theoretically, it should be possible to run through 5S2W and 4S in the same way, but I didn't bother trying it. These wouldn't lead to any alternate solutions.

Again, these last two details don't need to be changed.
10-20-2010 at 02:04 AM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: war0 (+2)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
6S3W - You can run through this room without solving, using the tarstuff cutting trick. You can then solve it with sword instead of fegundo from the top left entrance.
And it took me much longer to solve it from the north.

10-20-2010 at 12:35 PM
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