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Lamkin
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Machinarium (0)

Machinarium is now available for pre-order for $17.

[Last edited by Lamkin at 09-30-2009 06:34 PM]

07-05-2009 at 01:29 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

The Machinarium demo has been released for both Windows and Mac OS X.*

* I immediately encountered a problem getting the Mac demo to work—double-clicking the application simply opens Adobe's standalone Flash Player but nothing else (i.e., nothing happens). However, I eventually found a way to make it work and could explain how to do so if anyone needs me to. Not that many of you have Macs (or pre-Intel Macs) anyway.
Edit: Actually, the problem was with GamersGate, which had (has?) uploaded an "unofficial and corrupted" Mac demo. I've fixed the link above...

[Last edited by Lamkin at 04-27-2010 03:46 PM]

09-30-2009 at 06:37 PM

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Jatopian
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Re: Machinarium (0)

So... why not tell us a little bit about this "Machinarium", since those links provide only a (admittedly intriguing) screenshot and a short piece of exposition.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 08-09-2010 08:05 PM : typo]

09-30-2009 at 06:41 PM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (+2)

Er...yes...sorry about that. My initial thought was that the vast majority of people on the forum had already known about the game (so I'd simply need to give those people a heads-up, as it were, about the pre-order and the release of the demo), but then I realized that that was a silly assumption, so I'd returned to the forum to elaborate just a bit and I spotted Jatopian's (good-natured) post. Oops.
Machinarium is a point-and-click adventure/puzzle game from Amanita Design, the team responsible for Samorost. The art and style of this game are truly amazing—each and every bizarre screen was painstakingly (and beautifully) drawn by hand.

"Set in the eponymous city of Machinarium, the game follows the plight of a young, scruffy robot called Josef, dismissed from society and literally chucked away with the rubbish. Sneaking back into the city, you learn of a terrible plot to blow the entire place up—and, naturally, it's up to you to prevent that from happening."

Here is a link where the game was first mentioned and discussed on our forum:
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=28733&page=0#281388
And here, more appropriately, is a link to the official site:
http://machinarium.net/

[Last edited by Lamkin at 04-27-2010 03:47 PM]

09-30-2009 at 07:26 PM

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NiroZ
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Re: Machinarium (0)

If it's like the other Samorost games, I think the best way to describe it is to say that it's charming, and insanely irritating.

10-01-2009 at 08:06 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

You mean you don't enjoy clicking on each and every pixel?

10-01-2009 at 02:06 PM

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NiroZ
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Only when I want to feel like I'm powering my computer through my mouse clicks.

10-01-2009 at 02:42 PM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (+1)

The full version of Machinarium has been released and is now available (for $20.00) here.

A few quick things:
• Mac and Windows versions are also available for download at GamersGate.
• The game is also on Steam.
• A Linux version (only 32-bit) is available for download at the game's main site.
• If you purchase the game through its main site you will also be given a link to download the game's soundtrack (which you would otherwise have to buy separately).
• Purchasing Machinarium via the game's main site will allow you to download versions for all three different platforms.
• The game is DRM-free.

[Last edited by Lamkin at 04-27-2010 03:48 PM]

10-16-2009 at 01:08 PM

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AnneAardvark
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Lamkin wrote:
You mean you don't enjoy clicking on each and every pixel?

This tactic is not successful in this game,
only the pixels within reach work,
i.e. you have to move near to the area you wish to click,
makes the game much harder as you don't know where the hotspots are in the out of reach area.

11-20-2009 at 10:12 PM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

AnneAardvark wrote:

Lamkin wrote:
You mean you don't enjoy clicking on each and every pixel?

This tactic is not successful in this game,
only the pixels within reach work,
i.e. you have to move near to the area you wish to click...

Correct. For those who may not know, you play as (i.e, control) the little robot Josef, and you are only able to click on and interact with objects and characters within his reach. It's my belief that the developers did this, at least in part, in order to discourage random pixel hunting.

[Last edited by Lamkin at 11-22-2009 07:38 PM]

11-20-2009 at 11:34 PM

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Banjooie
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Re: Machinarium (0)

This is /worse/ than pixel hunting. This is having to move an inch, pixel hunt, move an inch, and pixel hunt again!

Who decided this was a good idea? WHO?!

11-22-2009 at 09:08 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

I actually think it's an improvement.

Let's say, for example, that the little robot is sort of stuck in a prison cell, or on a platform, or on one side of a raised bridge. In each instance, being able to interact only with what's within your reach should prove to be less frustrating because you know that some character or object way out of reach clear on the other side of the screen is something that won't, at least at that particular moment, be helpful to you. Instead, you'll need to search for something that's more or less directly around you, and this, of course, translates into hunting pixels over a smaller area of the screen.
Even when the robot's movement isn't restricted in this way, there is always a limit with regard to the areas you're allowed to explore. Now, if you were able to move your guy everywhere and anywhere on the screen at any time you wanted, then yeah, it would definitely be far worse.

Sorry if you wanted the short answer. =op

11-23-2009 at 12:11 AM

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Jatopian
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Re: Machinarium (0)

But one could know that anyway without that mechanic, just by simple logic!

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11-23-2009 at 12:33 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Since when do point-and-click games use that kind of logic? In Samorost (or Samorost 2), for example, you're basically able to click on and use any object that's visible on the screen regardless of your proximity to it.

11-23-2009 at 12:58 AM

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Jatopian
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Well, there's the Monkey Island games for a start, and A Tale of Two Kingdoms, and furthermore if no one had ever done it that wouldn't be an excuse for not thinking of it. Especially since what they did do supposedly shows innovation and a fresh approach or whatever.

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11-23-2009 at 02:01 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Fair enough with regard to your examples, and maybe it's not truly a fresh approach after all, but is your point that the developers of Machinarium shouldn't have implemented that mechanic, as you call it, simply because it wasn't necessary? My point is basically that I don't see how them having done so makes the game harder or more tedious to play, and I still maintain that it makes it less so.

[Last edited by Lamkin at 04-11-2010 07:36 PM]

11-23-2009 at 02:28 AM

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NiroZ
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Jatopian, not that I blame you, but you obviously haven't been play many flash adventure/puzzle games on the internet. A lot of these flash games have the 'hand of god' approach, and thus, given (I think) this game is made in flash, people will naturally assume that they have that, especially as the other games followed the norm.

And even then, you've never had your character reach an object you didn't expect?

[Last edited by NiroZ at 11-23-2009 02:52 AM]

11-23-2009 at 02:50 AM

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zex20913
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Re: Machinarium (0)

If I wanted to scour every square inch of a place, I'd be an archaeologist. Note that I am not.

The puzzles could be fresh and fun, I don't know. But the game mechanism doesn't seem like it would be enjoyable.

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11-23-2009 at 03:19 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

I'm not sure why the game mechanism used in Machinarium would be any less enjoyable than any other point-and-click game. Perhaps you're just not fond of the genre in general, zex. (Many people aren't, of course.)

11-23-2009 at 04:00 AM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: Machinarium (0)

I think the question is:

Is it obvious what you can and cannot interact with?
or in other words
Does the challenge of the game come from working out the order/combination for activating iterms, or in finding which things can be activated?

If you have a combination of the two, you are probably going to irritate people. That's not to denigrate searching as a valid game mechanic. There are hidden object and spot the difference type games out there - the difference is that in those you know what you are looking for (and that there is something that you need to find.)

Looking at the screenshots in the thread, it's not immediately apparent to me which items are usable, so I'd hope that there's a non-clicking way of telling what's important? There are a number of ways that this could be done:
- change cursor when mousing over usable item (this is generally ok as long as the active areas are large enough that you'll spot non obvious things by waving your mouse around)
- some other indication when mousing over (eg early LucasArts adventure games printed the object name in the current command (Walk to door))
- later LucasArts games (MI4, Grim Fandango) - as you move the protagonist around, they turn their head to look at nearby items they can interact with.
- just put big ol' circles around anything you can click. I played five minute flash game like this a while ago (also about a robot)

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11-23-2009 at 05:29 AM

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Dischorran
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Re: Machinarium (+1)

You kids and your pointing and clicking. Why, when I was a kid, we had to *type* everything, and if we couldn't use a keyboard well enough to get the escape pod open before the Marrowmatic fried us, well, TOO BAD! And we LIKED it!

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11-23-2009 at 05:52 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Rabscuttle wrote:
Looking at the screenshots in the thread, it's not immediately apparent to me which items are usable, so I'd hope that there's a non-clicking way of telling what's important?

Since it's a Flash game, the cursor changes into a tiny gloved hand when you mouse over a usable item.

And Dischorran is silly, but I like silly.

[Last edited by Lamkin at 04-11-2010 07:38 PM]

11-23-2009 at 06:23 AM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Lamkin wrote:

Rabscuttle wrote:
Looking at the screenshots in the thread, it's not immediately apparent to me which items are usable, so I'd hope that there's a non-clicking way of telling what's important?
Since it's a Flash game, the cursor changes into a tiny gloved hand when you mouse over a usable item.

That's probably ok. Although if you need to be close enough to use an item to see that it can be used, then that's not good.

ok, I guess I'll have to stop being cantankerous in general and take a look at the game. (then I can be specifically cantankerous)

====

Dischorran wrote:
You kids and your pointing and clicking. Why, when I was a kid, we had to *type* everything, and if we couldn't use a keyboard well enough to get the escape pod open before the Marrowmatic fried us, well, TOO BAD! And we LIKED it!

You should go back further to all-text adventures. Then there's none of this spot the object nonsense, just good ol' fashioned guess-the-verb
>FASTEN ROPE TO ROCK
[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 11-23-2009 07:15 AM]

11-23-2009 at 06:53 AM

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Maurog
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Re: Machinarium (0)

There's really not much pixel hunting in Machinarium. It's pretty straightforward when it comes to what you can interact with and what you can't. I breezed through it, and only got stuck once at a point where you have to use the terrain to your advantage (yeah, remember that plank in Monkey Island that you need to step on to chase the bird away, well I hate this kind of puzzle).

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11-23-2009 at 07:09 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Rabscuttle wrote:

Lamkin wrote:

Rabscuttle wrote:
Does the challenge of the game come from working out the order/combination for activating iterms, or in finding which things can be activated?

If you have a combination of the two, you are probably going to irritate people.
But don't all point-and-click games have a combination of the two?

I would argue no.

Since posting that, I'd actually changed my mind and now agree with you, which is why you don't see my original comment up there.* Oops. If finding things which can be activated is truly challenging, then yeah, that would be irritating.

* I've developed a habit of deleting posts (and then reposting them) rather than editing them.
:look

[Last edited by Lamkin at 11-23-2009 07:26 AM : I'm trying to break the habit.]

11-23-2009 at 07:13 AM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: Machinarium (0)

edited my post above

Played the three demo rooms. Nearly all relevant objects didn't need hard looking. There was nothing that annoyed me.

Having to move close to items to use them is annoying. There's no real difference between next to an object and on the other side of the room - if he can change his height before activating an item, then there's no reason why he can't walk a little as well.

Ditto the height changing after you've already discovered something you can do. (eg the pull-cord in the second room) If you've done it once, it's reasonable to assume you can do it again without manually needing to resize.

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11-23-2009 at 07:48 AM

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Banjooie
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Re: Machinarium (0)

What? There was all sorts of dumb, but the /worst/.

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11-23-2009 at 10:49 AM

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Lamkin
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Banjooie wrote:
There was all sorts of dumb...

I don't think the puzzles were any "dumber" than the ones in, say, Sam and Max Hit the Road. In other words, couldn't you make that claim about all the point-and-clickies games?
Hmm...
Okay, maybe not Myst.

11-24-2009 at 08:50 PM

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b0rsuk
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Re: Machinarium (+1)

Banjooie wrote:
What? There was all sorts of dumb, but the /worst/.

Click here to view the secret text
×That room where you screw with the mine cart to go through the little door. Figuring out you're supposed to climb up onto that pipe was /so dumb/.

I strongly disagree it was dumb. I solved it by logic:

Click here to view the secret text

I know Machinarium is a traditional pixel-hunting puzzle game, so it shares annoyances of those. What made *me* mad was uncertainity if I had everything needed to solve puzzles in a particular room. In other words - do I need to keep trying and thinking, or do I need to acquire an item 3 locations away ? I don't mind hard puzzles if I know they are possible. This is one thing I really like about DROD: you *know* every room is possible or it's clearly labeled as unnecessary.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 11-26-2009 11:11 AM]

11-26-2009 at 11:09 AM

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Rabscuttle
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Re: Machinarium (0)

Are there multi-room puzzles in the rest of the game? I assumed from the demo that each room was self contained. Although I guess the screen shots don't look self-contained.

I didn't mind the aforementioned puzzle

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×I thought the yellow thingy looked like something that could be got (i.e. it wasn't nailed down), so I was actively looking for a way to get up there. If you don't know you want to get there, then I can see why you'd think it's a bit random.

That's why 'look' commands are good.

>Look at thingy 
You see a yellow thingy.  It looks like something you should probably get.

11-26-2009 at 01:50 PM

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