azb
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File: The Sewers of Ceran Level 8.hold (25.5 KB)
Downloaded 6 times.
License: Public Domain

This hold isn't just ripping off KDD lazily, but I made sure to have my own ideas inspired by KDD (for example, the elements introduced in the first level are the same as the original KDD, and some mechanisms like the shelter alcove or yellow door junction are used in the same way, but they're used in different contexts here and it isn't just a big copy-paste of KDD level 1 directly.)

Note as well the story is different, and you'll see how as you play through it.

Some levels, like 8, 9, 11, and 13 will be different than the original KDD in the same way they were in my AE 210 Levels of Terror project, so level 8 will not have any tar mothers, level 9 will focus on invisibility, level 11 will not have mazes under tar but instead other tar puzzles, and likewise level 13 will not have mazes as big as KDD 13 proper to reduce annoyance with those types of mazes, and instead the mini-maze in that level will be more cleverly designed and all the other rooms will be review puzzles of earlier levels.

All the other levels however I will preserve the original KDD concept as much as possible, but just obviously use my own story, and own puzzle ideas even if I use some mechanics - the entire room isn't the same is my point here.

The first eight I posted now demonstrate what I am talking about referencing KDD levels 1 thru 8.

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[Last edited by azb at 12-27-2024 12:44 PM : Added level 8]

azb
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Does anyone feel the rooms and/or story here are too similar to the original KDD?

I figured references like the alcove in level 1 or the warp room in level 4 or the junction in level 4 are okay, because those are general designs and I don't think those are copyrighted material, as long as it's not blatantly retelling the same rooms and changing only one or two tiles I think it's okay to take general designs, just like you can patent a movie's character names but not the fact they wear glasses.

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[Last edited by azb at 12-28-2024 12:15 AM : Wrong level for warp room]

Dischorran
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I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Why not make rooms that you think are fun first, and assemble them into a hold second, rather than continuing to retread the official holds?

This is a rhetorical question. By which I mean, stop doing your inspired by official hold thing. Instead, make cool new rooms and then make a hold from them. That's always worked for me, it should work for you too.

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azb
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Have you even given this hold a shot before you made your comment? You will see I put time and effort to make my own rooms from the ground up like Someone Else suggested and you suggested now, even if I made it clear where I take my ideas from - it's not like I'm copy-pasting KDD levels 1 thru 8 and calling it a day.

IE: the only real similarity is that the elements are introduced in the same order for each level and some things like the warp rooms are re-used, but again those are just general game mechanics/room ideas and they are not unique to KDD.

I also know not to repeat the annoying parts of KDD, like the mazes under tar or the big labyrinth of level 13, as I mentioned in the first post, but rather make my own high-quality hold.

The only reason I mentioned KDD is to state I was limiting myself to 1.0 era elements and state which hold inspired my hold, but I am not just copy-pasting KDD directly and calling it a day, because we have the real KDD for that.

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[Last edited by azb at 12-28-2024 12:58 PM : Clarified my reasoning]

Dischorran
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azb wrote:
Have you even given this hold a shot before you made your comment?

I didn't need to. That's the problem.

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azb
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...then you shouldn't make comments if you don't know what the hold actually looks like.

For a non-gaming analogy, if I told I made a movie inspired by Spider-Man, would you be immediately turned off even if it actually had my own creative twists to it with my own characters and own plot made from the ground up, and I was only referencing it because the plots of the two movies are similar but not copy-pasted directly?

Maybe you like holds that are not using ideas made from other people and that's your call, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it if they take the time to put their own interpretation to it and don't just re-hash the material mindlessly, which is what you will see this hold does.

Dischorran
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Fine. Tried the first two levels. They are indeed not a copy paste of KDD, and if you want to make something that is technically publishable but nobody wants to play, knock yourself out.

But that's not the problem. What is the audience? Who would play this who has not played the official holds? Who needs a slow introduction to roaches and roach queens? How many user made holds have you even played? If I wanted to play the sort of thing that you've made here, I'd go back to the official holds and optimize my scores.

Do what you want to do, my dude, but if you care about people playing your holds, rather than just caring about making them, bring your own voice to them. We already have KDD, JtRH, and so on, we don't need the we have them at home versions.

Have a quote from Zelazny: "Many of my better short stories are just the last chapters of novels I did not write." With this in mind, consider a small hold with just your best rooms rather than a large hold with a bunch of filler. If you play the best rated community holds, or really just about any community holds, you will see exactly this.

Free idea: randomize the elements and introduce them one at a time in an order that is not the official hold order. That could be interesting.

But yeah, you keep doing the retread thing and it keeps not working and I don't have much faith in this changing, so this is my advice. Take it or leave it, I've spent enough time here.

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