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zwetschenwasser
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icon Re: A Side Road (0)  
TA:
Entrance: Will fix scripting
1N:No, it's not intentional. I'll add some prevention stuff.
3N: How can you leave the room as something other than Beethro? (and conquer the room)
3N1E: Oops! I'll take that scroll out...
1N1E: Sorry...Will replace

LCF: Yes, I have completely tested it, and every room is possible.
1E: I like it that way, since the monster killing is supposed to happen "behind the scenes"
3S1E: Will remove conquer token
4S1E: To me, this was my hardest room. I had to kill all the slayers before getting to the orb, but I managed to beat it after a few days...Anything in there is definitely intentional.

Thanks! Keep coming, Mr. Feedback :D

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11-24-2008 at 11:39 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: A Side Road (+1)  
That's Dr. Feedback to you.

TA 3N: You clear the room as Beethro and then step on a checkpoint before going to the next room. Come to think of it, it's possible to go to the next room without clearing this one, which is even worse. Either way, it's a backtracking problem, and the HAs aren't going to like it.

Feel free to ignore this, but I'd recommend not having rooms that require people to know the more complicated tricks for killing slayers. It's a balance issue; this hold is largely easyish, which is fine, and something like that takes individual rooms up above the overall level of the hold.

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11-24-2008 at 02:43 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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I actually forced slayer kills in several other rooms, and I personally enjoy the switch from moderately easy to hard. In LCF, the first (of two) of the required slayer kill rooms (you might not have seen the other one because of an error in the attachment) involves slightly easier slayer tricks, since they are left partially vulnerable due to attraction by the stalwarts. Please let me know if the bottommost attachment doesn't include the other half of LCF and Building Platform. Thanks, Dr. F!

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11-25-2008 at 11:36 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: A Side Road (+2)  
And I'm now finished with what you've built. You have the core of a decent hold here, but you sometimes seem to plunk down elements without much attention to building a coherent puzzle out of them. Even in a horde room, everything you put in needs to have a purpose, or you end up creating war14, and we've had enough of those. Less is often more. For instance, ask if dropping the trapdoors presents an interesting challenge. If not, take them out, and maybe replace that aspect of the room with something else. However, you have a bunch of good rooms here, which just need to be tightened up some.

Life Creation Faciity:
4S1E: OK, it is indeed possible. But it's still a pain, and you should be able to make the same point with far fewer slayers (say, 2 near the mud, and 1 near the queens).
4S: Nice room. Started with sword NW. Goblins die automatically. WWs can die once I make it in. Aumtlich could maybe be positioned for more of a challenge. Is "hear" deliberate?
4S1W: Started by working my way along the very top to keep the goblins in, which was a decent puzzle. Luring the slayers away, then killing a few eyes, and repeating multiple times got a bit tiresome; you could probably make your point with fewer eyes (say, by eliminating the lower-right room).
3S1W: I've seen guards and goblins on orthosquares before, but it still makes a good challenge. Again, the conquer token makes optimization uninteresting; perhaps a trapdoor with red door elsewhere would be an alternative way to force the player to read the scroll.
2S1W: None of the stalwarts survived. Thankfully, I can leave and re-enter, and they rise from the dead to take on the slayers.
1S: Dead easy.

Building Platform: You've gone for a few levels with vanishingly little plot, and now you're dumping your NaNoWriMo text on us. Plotwise, would it make sense to drop mysterious references to this history in the previous levels? Hitting me with it all at once sort of made me tune out: "Tons of names? Yes. Author's name Tolkien? No. Conclusion: hit the space bar."
1N: Not too hard. Could you stick the slayer speech in a corner so it doesn't obscure the action?
2N: OK horde room, especially the beginning. The trapdoors don't add much, but having builders as moving obstacles livens up the room. I didn't need the speed potion.
3N: Nice room! I only used 3 decoys, and never went swordless.
3N1W: Trivial. First, stick a decoy on the conquer token to conquer the room and leave (unintentional, I assume). Second, re-enter and hit the orb; those invisibility potions make it unnecessarily hard to see the arrows, and the arrow maze is ridiculously easy anyway.
4N1W: Do I need to help kill the slayers?
2N1W: Good idea - avoid the bomb blasts while defending from roaches, subject to the aumtlich restricting movement. Too bad I can hole up in the top 1-wide passages and wait it all out.
1N1W: Nice small aumtlich manipulation puzzle. But why all the trapdoors?
1W: Nice aesthetics, but basic snake room.

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11-27-2008 at 05:15 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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icon Re: A Side Road (0)  
LCF:
4S1W: Lower Right = Death By Slayers Puzzle?
3S1W: Sound good! Will fix.
2S1W: Nope. 1 Stalwart survives. I'll force you to not reenter.
1S: Relaxation room

Building Platform:
You don't like my story? :(
1N: will fix
3N: could you elaborate on just using 3? I had to use two to lure the guard out, and three to kill one of each seep.
3N1W: AARRGH! I thought I took care of the decoy conquer token by scripting a door close. I'll have to add another one. I don't remember an arrow maze in that room. The intended solution is to put decoys on the two rotators and one on the power token, then use the fegundos to blow up builders while you rush to get a decoy to put on the swordless token.
4N1W: Just a plot room. Navigate through the slayers and leave.
2N1W: Is it possible to not use the corridor? If so, I'll remove it.
1N1W: Stupid, I know. I'll remove some trapdoors.

I've got another level done, I fixed everything you said in the previous levels, and I'll be posting a new version soon, with firefox. Thanks!

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11-27-2008 at 03:05 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Oh, That arrow maze! It's supposed to prevent you from cheating the room by hitting the orb with a fegundo. Could you help with some prevention techniques?

Ah, and I intended the LCF eye room to not be possible without slayer kills.

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[Last edited by zwetschenwasser at 11-27-2008 03:11 PM]
11-27-2008 at 03:07 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: A Side Road (0)  
LCF:
4S1W: Nope, no slayer killing required. The room just gets to be a bit much with so many eyes, that's all; you could maybe make your point by shrinking it.

BP:
It's a good story, well-written, and it totally doesn't match the feel of the rest of the hold. The trouble is that I have to wait for the game to feed me a line at a time, and I get impatient and move on. Have you considered using it for the level entrance text instead? That might work really well (or it might not, who knows).
3N: One for each paired seep. I kill 3 aumtlich, lure the aumtlich into the builder triggering region and kill it, then go hit the power token, deal with the fegundo, and walk over the bridge to mop up. No guard luring required.
3N1W: Surrounding the orb with 8 outward-pointing arrows should do the trick. Stick an upward-pointing arrow on the conquer token to block the annoying decoy tricks; I kept doing this to Rheb in beta also.
4N1W: Or just wait and go back the way I came.


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11-27-2008 at 05:32 PM
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mxvladi
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I found unintended solution! :~(

In building platform, you actually don't have to solve the whole level to get southern passage - you can simply reenter room from the north, wait until those builders will build path for you, then get the southern passge through red relay stations(and red builders). :~(

So, I've solved only two rooms in Building platfrom so far.

1N: pretrty easy puzzle. Also, I let the adder east all builders. ;)

2N: I found that I didn't really like that room, since there was too much hack&slashing. :|

[Last edited by mxvladi at 11-27-2008 05:42 PM]
11-27-2008 at 05:41 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Two new levels done, and have hopefully killed most of the unintended solutions (except yours, mxvladi. I'll fix that one in the next version)

For BP 3N, I will also delete a few potions next version.
And I will fix the other stuff in Dr. D's latest post (I didn't realize that you two had posted replies to my previous questions until right now... :blush )
I'm working on a level twice as big as the others right now, and I'll post it when it's done...
Thanks for the feedback!

P.S. I like firefox, but does the attachment problem occur in Google Chrome also, since I'd like to use that instead...

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12-07-2008 at 07:43 PM
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mxvladi
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Okay, I'm playing through new version now. Must say that detour 1N is evil now. Probably the best room in the first level! :thumbsup
12-08-2008 at 01:01 PM
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mxvladi
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Now I see that unintended level solution of Building Platform is still possible. Please, fix it, or the whole level can be simply skipped.

That's the position I have in BP:

Click here to view the secret text


So, I can sneak to the south through left passage. I suggest to place more builders, more red in particular.

Also, may I ask you to make Detour the second a little less dark? :unsure

[Last edited by mxvladi at 12-08-2008 01:26 PM]
12-08-2008 at 01:24 PM
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mxvladi
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Played through "detour the second". My comments:

General: Too dark. But puzzles are better than in previous levels, especially entrance puzzle is awesome.

entrance: AWESOME puzzle! :thumbsup Took me a while.

1W: Trial-and-error. Didn't like it much. But it was quite hard, yessum. I think you can do something better than it though. Just try.

1S 1W: The mimic manipulation was interesting, but quite boring in the end. Good job, anyway. Even though entrance was better, it's also nice puzzle. :)

1S: Pls put some checkpoints under the mud. It's quite frustrating to cut it all and then accidentally get killed before reching checkpoint and start again. About the room: I think you use too much "snakes protected by aumtlichs' ray" type of hack&slash room. I suggest you to change this a little.

2S: A little challenge. Cool, but easy. I still think that entrance is the best.

2S 1E: Aww, too much hack&slashing. I found that I'm tired of it. :(

2S 2E: Well, this is neat room, but it has a backtracking problem. I can cut all mud and leave one mud baby unkilled(or leave one brain unkilled). And if I exit thorugh the north, I won't be able to clear this room. Since this level has a blue door, it's a problem. Please fix it. Thanks.

1S 2E: Again, I don't like that you have to restore if you've entered room, say, facing south... :?

1S 1E: Again, a very nice room. Took me a while.

Well, I liked entrance the most. Why? Because it hadn't any dumb hack&slashing, because it was puzzly, because it was fun and quite hard. I hope to see more rooms like Detour the second - entrance from you. :)
12-08-2008 at 05:32 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Don't worry, I fixed BP.
2S1E: I take great pride in this, IMHO, evil room.
1S2E: Taken out a guard, so it should work now.
1S1E: I have no idea where I got this idea, but I'm glad you liked it.
2S2E: Added green door and a warning that you can't backtrack

Thanks! Hope you like Tritian Level...

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12-08-2008 at 09:52 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm holding off on my next level in the interest of Tritian Level (TM)

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12-14-2008 at 10:30 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Aha! I've fixed the stairs, so now you should be able to normally access Tritian Level and a new level, Midel Path. (Disregard Salamayn outpost, cuz it ain't nowhere near done...)
Thanks for commentary! :)

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12-17-2008 at 12:50 AM
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mxvladi
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Started playing Tritian Level.

1N: Didn't like it, because I found quite tedious killing all aumtliches and goblins.

1N 1E: Was quite challenging once I've stopped using those tunnels. ;) Checkpoints highly reccomended.

1N 2E: EVIL ROOM. More checkpoints would be nice. :)

2N 2E: Cool room! Has enough chackpoints and not too tedious... but, unfortunately, it has backtracking problem. :~( If I drop all trapdoors, kill the brain but leave some roach queens on my way to the brain and if I move to the north room leaving this one unconquered, I'll be stuck. Putting a green door would fix that.

3N 2E: Cool room! You realise that I'll have one not trapped fegundo when I conquer this room and exit, right? :)

[Last edited by mxvladi at 12-25-2008 12:09 PM]
12-24-2008 at 11:41 AM
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mxvladi
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Started "Midel path". This is going to be loooong level.


Unfortunately, 3N room of this level has a backtracking problem. :~( I can kill all mothers(leaving one tar/mud blob somewhere) and open green door, then cut the rest of the tarstuff, leave one baby and escape to the north. I'll have to restore to reconquer 3N then. :weep Anyway, cutting gel was tough. :cool

Will comment on some other rooms soon.
12-24-2008 at 01:48 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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I hope you know that I'm holding off on building anymore in joyful hope of the coming of mxvladi's Midel Path comments. :)

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01-06-2009 at 10:41 PM
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mxvladi
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All rooms there are nice and quite tough. However, some of rooms have backtracking problems:

3N(I've noted that before);
4N(Also not sure about its' intended solution, but will ask about it later);
5N;
18N(conquer room, then leave to the south and enter again. Result - I can't get the northern room without restoring).

Suggestions of how can it be fixed:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by mxvladi at 01-09-2009 01:55 PM]
01-07-2009 at 08:24 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm back from my performance with the All-State Symphony Orchestra in Tampa, Florida! :w00t I'm getting to fix the backtracks, but not the 3N one, since it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't leave a baby.

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01-12-2009 at 12:03 AM
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mxvladi
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zwetschenwasser wrote:
I'm getting to fix the backtracks, but not the 3N one, since it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't leave a baby.

Well, of course it's pretty obvious that I shouldn't leave a baby, but it would be far better if you would fix it(even though in my holds it was also obvious that I shouldn't leave a baby after conquering a room, I was always asked to fix those backtracking problems). Besides, adding a black door and putting conquer token on black door isn't too hard to do... -_-

[Last edited by mxvladi at 01-12-2009 12:08 PM]
01-12-2009 at 12:03 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Dischorran biased me against conquer tokens.

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01-12-2009 at 10:44 PM
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Blondbeard
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Please don't have any hidden-under-tar-mazes! I didn't get very far, and that is where I quit ;)
01-14-2009 at 08:24 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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There's a vision token. :)

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01-14-2009 at 11:02 PM
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Dex Stewart
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Is it hidden under Tar?
Yes, bad and probably not funny joke, I know.:)
01-15-2009 at 10:27 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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I understand your question perfectly. It's

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01-16-2009 at 12:07 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm taking a temporary sabbatical from my hold to work on other things... :)

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01-19-2009 at 04:48 PM
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is it really your FIRST hold? I can't belivesum that! Eet eez fantastic! Bravo! The storyline is gobbin good too, though at the beggining it seemed lame. Accountant....
01-23-2009 at 10:29 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm going to start working on this baby again soon. Hopefully within the month. :)

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03-01-2009 at 03:11 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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*yawn* I've cracked open my hold. Expect a new level soon.:yahoo:

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03-04-2009 at 03:04 AM
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