coppro
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It may also be, for all intents and purposes, the same as a regular apple. It's no scarier than DDT.

Fafnir
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Tim wrote:

Dischorran wrote:
There are plenty of ethical and scientific problems with the GM developers' IP techniques and preference for weedkiller-resistant crops, but the end product's the same as it always was, maybe even better. Popping an extra gene into corn doesn't make it, y'know, not corn. Avoid it if you like to support small farmers, but it's not going to make you sick or bring God's wrath down on you for messing with nature.

You are wrong here. Really wrong. An apple with an extra gene may have the look and feel of a normal apple, but it isn't. It might be a "better" apple, but it might also become poisonous by the same gene. And unlike Snow White, who has a charming prince, I'd have to choose carefully. (link to article with much better explanation)

Just to clarify here - the article is actually talking about mushrooms for the "poison" part. I don't care how much GM you employ, it would take quite some doing to get a poisonous apple... And the real issue is less introducing poison (which would be easily detectable) than inadvertently introducing chemicals which as far we know is harmless, but actually have unpleasant side-effects over long periods of exposure.

I think to be honest this is less of an issue than most of the other concerns with GM, if only because it can be mostly prevented by regulatory oversight and careful testing. If you know what chemicals there should be in a garden variety apple (which we do), any additional chemicals - "harmless" or not - can be detected, and the product can be barred from the market if it could pose a threat.

(Full disclosure: I dropped Biology after GCSE, so this isn't exactly my area of expertise. Also, it is late enough at night that my thoughts may not bear any resemblance to reality. Nitwit blubber oddment tweak.)

____________________________
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Absolute stupidity
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Dischorran
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Tim wrote:
You are wrong here. Really wrong. An apple with an extra gene may have the look and feel of a normal apple, but it isn't. It might be a "better" apple, but it might also become poisonous by the same gene.

Dude, I'm a biologist. I put genes into research strains of bacteria and yeast for a living, and modern techniques make it rather difficult to transfer the wrong gene in the first place, let alone not notice that the wrong one's been transferred. GM plants are, if anything, a better idea than the ones you've been eating all your life from the "Green Revolution", because we know exactly what gene we're introducing rather than making large-scale random mutations to select for better growth (which is, itself, just a faster process of the millenia-old selective breeding). It's a different strain of apple, like Granny Smith vs. Red Delicious; no more, no less. For that matter, humans have had viruses insert themselves into our genomes and stay there, and we're still around.

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NiroZ
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I do love it how we have slid from an analogy on computer piracy that got taken far too literally, to genetic modification.

Jason
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As a note, Googling 'piracy pirates TCB DROD' brings this page up to the top.

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Lamkin
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You all should take into account that an apple a day might very well keep the apple posters away.

Znirk
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Personally, I'm just waiting for some random drive-by poster to point out that "apples don't have viruses".

NiroZ
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Maybe we should get this topic to attract even more visible on google by having things such as free DROD: The city beneath posted in this topic so that people can pirate DROD while being more informed about it.

Lamkin
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Znirk wrote:
Personally, I'm just waiting for some random drive-by poster to point out that "apples don't have viruses".

Do you mean that Mackintosh apples don't have viruses, or that the Apple Macintosh doesn't have viruses?

NiroZ wrote:
Maybe we should get this topic to attract even more visible on google by having things such as free DROD: The city beneath posted in this topic so that people can pirate DROD while being more informed about it.

I like your plan, and to show my support, I'm now going to use only pirate smilies in my posts.

Briareos
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Lamkin wrote:

Znirk wrote:
Personally, I'm just waiting for some random drive-by poster to point out that "apples don't have viruses".

Do you mean that Mackintosh apples don't have viruses, or that the Apple Macintosh doesn't have viruses?

Yes.

____________________________
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Jason
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Znirk wrote:
Personally, I'm just waiting for some random drive-by poster to point out that "apples don't have viruses".

...

They don't.

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Maurog
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Say what?

http://www.apsnet.org/pd/PDFS/1984/PlantDisease68n07_567.PDF

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CuriousShyRabbit
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It's great to see data in a peer-reviewed scientific journal article, instead of an opinion in a newspaper editorial.

A+ to Maurog.

Voidy
Level: Goblin
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Um.I'm terribly sorry for posting a GM-unrelated comment, but..

Banjooie wrote:
In Russia, piracy isn't looked at quite the same way as it is here. Essentially, over there, they look at you funny if you're like 'I bought Photoshop'.

...

A $20 game is a pretty killer investment over there.

I assume that the last time you've been to Russia was six or seven years ago. A lot has changed since then. Namely, software publishing business, which essentially lurked in shadows till Y2K (a mere coincidence?). Now any licensed PC smash hit costs about 15-20 bucks for a jewel, and 50-60 for a box. People are prepared to buy licensed stuff and do that at pretty much the same cost as in the US.
There is a catch, though. They want to do it the old-fashioned retail-shopping way. And not everyone here has got a Internet-connection, a Visa card (my hand up), or even a base knowledge of English. By god, there are people, a plenty of, lacking all of the above! Unimaginable, right?

So.

1) Purchasing any of DROD games priced at 20 bucks would cost me about 40 bucks. It costs money to move money between accounts and over the seas, y'know.

2) The game publishing market in Russia is pretty much retail, pretty much jewel and pretty goddamn much PC. That's probably why Slayer here pirated all of his console games. Does he still sound stupid, huh?
On the other hand, there is no Walmartesque retail turnovers, so the shelf-life of any game is probably years. That's why I was able to buy licensed DROD JtRH published by Akella Games four years ago. For 10 bucks instead of 40.

3) If you don't know English, no one is gonna be able to explain to you the fact that the DROD game you've just downloaded via torrent is stolen. Not even the greatest salesman in the world.

AFAIK, Akella Games doesn't plan to continue with publishing DROD series. So now I have to get a credit card or pay twice as much for TCB as it's worth. And still I am going to pay for it.

Banjooie wrote
I know ruskies.

It's Russians, thankyouverymuch.

____________________________
Let your imagination be the hardware http://www.ifarchive.org/

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[Last edited by Voidy at 09-01-2008 10:01 AM]

NiroZ
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Voidy wrote:
AFAIK, Akella Games doesn't plan to continue with publishing DROD series. So now I have to get a credit card or pay twice as much for TCB as it's worth. And still I am going to pay for it.

Ah, if you have a credit card, it really shouldn't cost that much.

Voidy
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NiroZ wrote:
Ah, if you have a credit card, it really shouldn't cost that much.

My point exactly


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NiroZ
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So why does it cost so much? Is it the exchange rate, bank bills or are you selecting wire transfer by accident?

Voidy
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NiroZ wrote:
So why does it cost so much? Is it the exchange rate, bank bills or are you selecting wire transfer by accident?

Pardon me if I didn't make it clear at first but I don't have a credit card. Well, I do have one from a local bank, but it's not universally accepted. In other words: it's not Visa. It's not MasterCard. You can't do cool stuff with it.

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NiroZ
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Oh, sorry. Misread your post, I thought you did have a credit card.

slimm tom
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Maybe you could check with your bank if they have Visa or Mastercards available to you. Or maybe you should go to a bigger bank and ask there.

mrimer
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Voidy wrote:
I assume that the last time you've been to Russia was six or seven years ago. A lot has changed since then.

That was the last time we were there, too. I'm glad to hear of the changes you mention.

AFAIK, Akella Games doesn't plan to continue with publishing DROD series.

I'm happy to say you're wrong here. Akella is currently testing the Russian localized version of TCB and it should be released there soon -- probably this month! It just took a long time here at Caravel to complete this project with all that's been happening this year.

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 09-01-2008 07:30 PM]

Hikari
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mrimer wrote:
I'm happy to say you're wrong here. Akella is currently testing the Russian localized version of TCB and it should be released there soon -- probably this month!

Are we going to get to see the strange coverart that Akella comes up with this time? Or are they going to use the coverart from the English-language box release?

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zwetschenwasser
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I just wanted to post that I was reading these posts and I was going to not post but I just wanted to post that I think that North American piracy is nowhere near as bad as South America, (I guess) Russia, or lots of other countries.

My point: FOR GOODNESS SAKES DON'T PIRATE DROD!!!!!

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Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

Voidy
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mrimer wrote:
I'm happy to say you're wrong here. Akella is currently testing the Russian localized version of TCB and it should be released there soon -- probably this month! It just took a long time here at Caravel to complete this project with all that's been happening this year.

That's great news! Wait, Caravel handles the Russian localization? You mean translation, voiceovers and stuff? What part of the job is left to Akella then, apart from testing?

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Maurog
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Distribution...

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Beef Row
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Maurog wrote:
Distribution...

And drawing strange covers...

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kyevan
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I'm going to copy this here to make future archaeologist's lives easier when they peal back the layers of the Caravel forums and try to find little shards of pottery or whatever.

kyevan wrote:

The Illumination - Sept 08
To my fellow pirates
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=26465
One forumite opens up about their piracy habits, which leads to some interesting discussion. And then there's some talk about apple farming? I'm not really sure either.

Great monkey dandrif! Are you guys DEDICATED to shattering my preconceptions of how game companies are supposed to act?

Anyway, might as well give an update on that, since it's been pointed out even to DRODers who don't bother with the forums: I have the money, and it's earmarked for DROD. I'm now working on the 'get it to Caravel' part.

Insane
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I asked my parents if it was okay for me to buy a computer game over the internet, and they said "noez!", what else is there left for me to do other than pirate DROD?

I'm not proud of it, but it's the only way I can play TCB and JtRH.

-Insane

The Architest
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If you parents wont let you buy DROD,thats not good!
You must say these words,like Danforth Strout :

"But..This is DROD were talking about!"

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[Last edited by The Architest at 09-28-2008 06:50 PM]

zwetschenwasser
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See my above post.


____________________________
Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

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[Last edited by zwetschenwasser at 09-28-2008 05:21 PM]