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Jatopian
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Kevin_P86 wrote:
Computers can never generate "truly random numbers". They can only ever generate pseudo-random numbers, which can very closely approximate truly random numbers, but they will never be the same.
Talking about true randomness gets into the metaphysical, kind of like "what is truly real, and how do we know?". For practical purposes, computers can generate random numbers better than things like dice, which have physical limitations and may be loaded.

Oh, and I oppose randomness in DROD.

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10-05-2007 at 12:08 AM
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Snacko
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Official holds are not the reason we love DROD. If new features are added with patches then we likely get both a stream of high-quality holds in the smitemaster's selections and new features in the editor. If we don't have to wait years for new components we can wrap our minds around, all the better.

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10-05-2007 at 12:10 AM
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Sillyman
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Yup. I like how 3.0 is expected to be patched with new elements. What I mean by "usably" Turing Complete is: Turing Complete+Reasonably fast speed. The 1-d CA in DROD is too slow to even calculate 1+1. What I mean is (For example): Be capable of implementing an infinite-space interpreter for a fast Turing-Complete language, given infinite memory.


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10-05-2007 at 02:51 AM
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AlefBet
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Sillyman wrote:
What I mean by "usably" Turing Complete is: Turing Complete+Reasonably fast speed. The 1-d CA in DROD is too slow to even calculate 1+1. What I mean is (For example): Be capable of implementing an infinite-space interpreter for a fast Turing-Complete language, given infinite memory.
Hmm. By that logic, a Turing machine is probably not "usably" Turing-complete. It requires a program to do some pretty simple things in pretty stupid ways.

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10-05-2007 at 03:20 AM
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halyavin
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I hope DROD 4 will allow arbitrary-shaped rooms (in 38x32 bounds in order to fit the screen) because rooms grid is quite artificial. Or may be DROD 4 will even allow levels without rooms boundaries! Just checkpoints to save the progress and monsters started to move by scripting. The only thing I am sure is that DROD 4 will contain even more bugs than TCB ;).
10-06-2007 at 10:54 AM
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calamarain
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What about a DROD variant - hexadrod. Drod on a hexagonal grid rather than a square one. Just considering AE for the moment, not sure how some elements would work - roaches, wraithwings, goblins would be pretty analogous. But the Living tar is a trickier one to think of. Same for snakes - there's no 'diagonal' equivalent without breaking left/right symmetry. Perhaps you'd have to make it so that snakes cannot move vertically up and down, only on the diagonals. Force arrows would be another tricky one.

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10-06-2007 at 11:58 AM
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Anson
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DROD 4 will have new features. obviously.

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10-06-2007 at 12:16 PM
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eb0ny
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halyavin wrote:
I hope DROD 4 will allow arbitrary-shaped rooms (in 38x32 bounds in order to fit the screen) because rooms grid is quite artificial. Or may be DROD 4 will even allow levels without rooms boundaries! Just checkpoints to save the progress and monsters started to move by scripting. The only thing I am sure is that DROD 4 will contain even more bugs than TCB ;).

If there would be no room boundaries and only checkpoints, you would get some kind of roguelike game based on DROD. In my opinion continuous scrolling would break DROD's puzzle-ability and the game as we know it. I would vote against it, unless scripting and story absolutely makes up for it.

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10-06-2007 at 12:25 PM
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Briareos
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eb0ny wrote:
I would vote against it, unless scripting and story absolutely makes up for it.
Nah. Just don't call it "Deadly Rooms Of Death" if there's no rooms to be found - "Deadly Worlds Of Death" might work, or "Deadly Levels Of Death"...

np: Future Sound Of London - Turn Around (From The Archives Vol. 1)

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10-06-2007 at 03:19 PM
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NoahT
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calamarain wrote:
What about a DROD variant - hexadrod. Drod on a hexagonal grid rather than a square one. Just considering AE for the moment, not sure how some elements would work - roaches, wraithwings, goblins would be pretty analogous. But the Living tar is a trickier one to think of. Same for snakes - there's no 'diagonal' equivalent without breaking left/right symmetry. Perhaps you'd have to make it so that snakes cannot move vertically up and down, only on the diagonals. Force arrows would be another tricky one.

Hmm...did you by any chance get that idea from here?

-Noah

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10-06-2007 at 04:33 PM
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calamarain
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Nope. I wasn't a member of the forum back then :)

But it's not an unusual logical step to get there.

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10-06-2007 at 04:51 PM
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zex20913
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My first thought for hexa-snakes would be "no tight turns". That is, it can turn left, right, or not, but can't really bend back on itself with a left-twice, right-twice, or SttD!'s jumpback.

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10-06-2007 at 09:27 PM
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calamarain
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zex20913 wrote:
My first thought for hexa-snakes would be "no tight turns". That is, it can turn left, right, or not, but can't really bend back on itself with a left-twice, right-twice, or SttD!'s jumpback.
As in once it has turned, it may then not turn again until it has moved forward at least once? Interesting concept. Perhaps someone could apply that to normal orthogonal DROD and make a snake that does that :)

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10-06-2007 at 09:51 PM
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TFMurphy
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I believe zex meant that the snake would be allowed to turn 60 degrees at any time just as normal, but anything greater (120 degrees, for example) would be impossible for it. That would mean that only three squares need to be blocked for a snake to become trapped instead of the five it might need if it could turn further.

Of course, that suggests that snakes can move in any direction, which isn't quite as analagous as, say, barring North-South movement, but it's certainly a possibility.

Although, having a slow turn like this would make it difficult for a snake to kill a delver - it'd be fairly easy to stay 120 degrees away from its head, though you possibly run the risk of getting trapped.
[Last edited by TFMurphy at 10-06-2007 10:09 PM]
10-06-2007 at 10:06 PM
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Bingbing
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Not to be impolite or anything, but how do we know if there will be a DROD 4?

Go Deadly Rooms of Death!

Hey, that would be a good team name.

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10-08-2007 at 02:17 PM
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zex20913
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TFMurphy indeed clarified my idea well. For some reason, I've been off from my usual self who tends to make sense. I'll try to bring him back.

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10-08-2007 at 05:59 PM
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coppro
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Bingbing wrote:
Not to be impolite or anything, but how do we know if there will be a DROD 4?
It says so at the end of TCB.

Won't add anything else to avoid spoilers.
[Last edited by coppro at 10-08-2007 07:12 PM]
10-08-2007 at 07:10 PM
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Briareos wrote:
eb0ny wrote:
I would vote against it, unless scripting and story absolutely makes up for it.
Nah. Just don't call it "Deadly Rooms Of Death" if there's no rooms to be found - "Deadly Worlds Of Death" might work, or "Deadly Levels Of Death"...1)
DWOD. Man...saying that makes me sound like the vicar in The Princess Bride.

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10-08-2007 at 07:26 PM
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calamarain
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mrimer wrote:
DWOD. Man...saying that makes me sound like the vicar in The Princess Bride.
Humperdinck!

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10-08-2007 at 07:48 PM
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For Hex Snakes, let's take a look at another way to express normal snake movement: They cannot turn sharply or softly, only 90 degrees. Hex snakes would move similarly, only being able to turn like so:
   _
 _/ \_ 
/X\_/X\
\_/H\_/
/ \_/ \
\_/T\_/
  \_/

X=Threatened; H=Head; T=Tail

Rotate that for whichever way the snake is facing, and Voila! The snake can reach any square, but can't turn sharply or softly (Which in this case would be going straight). This snake is trappable by 2 Hex-Walls, while most creatures are only trappable by 5. Hex Tarstuff is slightly more difficult.

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10-15-2007 at 10:21 PM
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Sillyman wrote:
The snake can reach any square
Hm. Not the snake you just described. There's a sublattice of one-third of the cells which can't be reached.
10-16-2007 at 12:59 AM
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calamarain
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schep wrote:
Sillyman wrote:
The snake can reach any square
Hm. Not the snake you just described. There's a sublattice of one-third of the cells which can't be reached.
How so? Can you provide an example of this? I can't see any squares that the snake can't reach.

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10-16-2007 at 01:05 AM
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coppro
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But it could move straight, couldn't it? If so, it can reach any square.
10-16-2007 at 01:07 AM
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calamarain
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coppro wrote:
But it could move straight, couldn't it? If so, it can reach any square.
That's what I thought. If it can also move straight on, then it can reach any square.

If it can only turn, then yes, there are squares it cannot reach.

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10-16-2007 at 01:12 AM
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coppro wrote:
Bingbing wrote:

Won't add anything else to avoid spoilers.



Aw. I was hoping to find out what was at the end of Drod 3.

No really, does it mention the possibility of a fourth Drod?

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10-16-2007 at 01:22 AM
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Jatopian
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calamarain wrote:
If it can only turn, then yes, there are squares it cannot reach.
They mean in the next turn.

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10-16-2007 at 01:24 AM
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calamarain
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Jatopian wrote:
calamarain wrote:
If it can only turn, then yes, there are squares it cannot reach.
They mean in the next turn.
Actually... if the snake can only turn 60 degrees and cannot go forward, there is a small set of squares that it can never reach.

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10-16-2007 at 01:26 AM
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Jatopian
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calamarain wrote:
Actually... if the snake can only turn 60 degrees and cannot go forward, there is a small set of squares that it can never reach.
This is confusing. It seems like you're trying to argue something with me, and I don't know what it is.

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10-16-2007 at 01:29 AM
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calamarain
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Jatopian wrote:
calamarain wrote:
Actually... if the snake can only turn 60 degrees and cannot go forward, there is a small set of squares that it can never reach.
This is confusing. It seems like you're trying to argue something with me, and I don't know what it is.
Sorry, lack of clarity there, different assumptions. Also, I've been awake for about... 24 hours now, so I may not be in the clearest frame of mind.

If the snake can move forwards, it can reach any hex, but 1/3 of the hexes surrounded the snake's head are not immediately available on the next move.

If the snake cannot move forwards, there is a set of hexes that can never be reached by the snake.

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10-16-2007 at 01:31 AM
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Jatopian
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Then we are in complete agreement here. Sleep is suggested. -_-

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10-16-2007 at 01:35 AM
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