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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : HexaDROD?
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levelthirteen
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icon HexaDROD? (+1)  
DROD on hexagonal tiles.
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04-27-2003 at 11:38 PM
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zex20913
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Would there be 6 sword placements? This would also require one hell of a lot of coding, I would imagine. Squares are nice and easy.

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04-27-2003 at 11:40 PM
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levelthirteen
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zex20913 wrote:
Would there be 6 sword placements? This would also require one hell of a lot of coding, I would imagine. Squares are nice and easy.
There are 8 sword placements in square DROD; and 8 directions for most monsters. In hexaDROD there would be only 6 directions for monsters, and serpents would more deadly (no diagonals to run away on). Also, hexagons are more natural; when was the last time you saw a square soap bubble?

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04-29-2003 at 03:03 AM
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Schik
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levelthirteen wrote:
Also, hexagons are more natural; when was the last time you saw a square soap bubble?
I think it was about the same as the last time that I saw a hexagonal soap bubble. :eyes

I think it makes a little more sense to note that in a hexagonal grid, all cells adjacent to a cell "A" are the same distance away from cell "A", which cannot be said for a square grid.


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04-29-2003 at 03:18 AM
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eytanz
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The fact that all cells are the same distance is exactly why I'm opposed to this idea. Much of the fun strategizing in DROD comes from exploiting the assymetry between straight lines and diagonals - snakes are only one form of this. Goblins and wraithwings also differ in their straight vs. diagonals behavior in visible ways. It's possible to go across the line of sight of a diagonal eyeball without waking it, but not of a straight-facing eyeball. And all monsters move faster on diagonals. Also, diagonal movement across a trapdoor field is hugely different than straight line movement. And lets not forget one of the biggest differences - the difference between corners and edges of tar. All these effects would be lost on an hexagonal field.

So, yeah, hexagons are somewhat more realistic, and lead to a more even playing field - which can be very important in a wargame, for instance. But DROD gameplay is, to a large extent, based on utilizing the complexity introduced by square tiles - and hexagonal tiles just can't give us that.

Plus, hexagons make for ugly rooms.

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04-29-2003 at 03:27 AM
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agaricus5
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eytanz wrote:
The fact that all cells are the same distance is exactly why I'm opposed to this idea. Much of the fun strategizing in DROD comes from exploiting the assymetry between straight lines and diagonals - snakes are only one form of this. Goblins and wraithwings also differ in their straight vs. diagonals behavior in visible ways. It's possible to go across the line of sight of a diagonal eyeball without waking it, but not of a straight-facing eyeball. And all monsters move faster on diagonals. Also, diagonal movement across a trapdoor field is hugely different than straight line movement.

Exactly! Couldn't have put it better myself! :)

And lets not forget one of the biggest differences - the difference between corners and edges of tar. All these effects would be lost on an hexagonal field.

Eeeeee... Hexagonal tar? It would be all horrid (it is anyway) and lumpy because of the hexagonal placement of the tiles, or would be a nightmare to clean because cutting it will make it very unstable and could get too many tar babies to deal with than is possible.

Anyway, just a thought...

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04-29-2003 at 07:18 PM
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ErikH2000
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levelthirteen wrote:
There are 8 sword placements in square DROD; and 8 directions for most monsters. In hexaDROD there would be only 6 directions for monsters, and serpents would more deadly (no diagonals to run away on). Also, hexagons are more natural; when was the last time you saw a square soap bubble?
Not a bad idea. It's better to design something like this from the ground up, and not worry so much about putting the same elements from DROD into the new game. So when somebody says that tar or serpents would suck, they might be right, but you don't have to use elements that don't translate well. And you can make new elements that work better with hexagons than squares.

The thing I probably like the least about hexagons is that at least in two directions (west/east for the typical orientation) you have to walk in a zig zag. For me the grid layout lends itself better to puzzle thinking than the sixers, but that might just be because your brain is made of honeycomb and mine is made of blocks.

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04-29-2003 at 07:42 PM
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eytanz
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ErikH2000 wrote:
levelthirteen wrote:
There are 8 sword placements in square DROD; and 8 directions for most monsters. In hexaDROD there would be only 6 directions for monsters, and serpents would more deadly (no diagonals to run away on). Also, hexagons are more natural; when was the last time you saw a square soap bubble?
Not a bad idea. It's better to design something like this from the ground up, and not worry so much about putting the same elements from DROD into the new game. So when somebody says that tar or serpents would suck, they might be right, but you don't have to use elements that don't translate well. And you can make new elements that work better with hexagons than squares.

Well, yeah, sure, you could do that - but you'd have to replace so many game elements that it will be a totally different game.

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04-30-2003 at 05:17 AM
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dart193
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Are you crazy? How will keyboard work? And it will be too hard.
05-20-2008 at 07:54 PM
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Mr. Slice
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Are you crazy? You just bumped a 5 year old thread!

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05-20-2008 at 08:05 PM
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dart193 wrote:
Are you crazy? How will keyboard work? And it will be too hard.

04-27-2003 at 23:38 Jeebus!

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05-20-2008 at 08:45 PM
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NiroZ
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icon Re: HexaDROD? (0)  
Maybe every time we suggest that someone use the search function, we should also remind them not to necro threads and to check the timestamps.
05-21-2008 at 04:21 AM
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NiroZ
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Well Dart obviously didn't.
05-21-2008 at 04:30 AM
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Briareos
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NiroZ wrote:
Maybe every time we suggest that someone use the search function, we should also remind them not to necro threads and to check the timestamps.
How about color-coding the posts by age?

Like - the older it is the less saturated the background color becomes, so that really old posts (1 year or older) are black on gray instead of black on color. :)

That might also take care of posts that are just having their n-th anniversary, where a cursory glance might make one miss the year on the date... :)

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05-21-2008 at 09:23 AM
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WEADZX? No comfortable enough. And i more like squares than... not squares. :no
05-21-2008 at 10:50 AM
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Jatopian
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dart193 wrote:
WEADZX? No comfortable enough. And i more like squares than... not squares. :no
I don't think you understand. You are the only one discussing this.

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05-21-2008 at 11:01 AM
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dart193
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I know English bad and i cant talk about all that i think. But why someone want to make DROD hexagonal? This game is good enough. :angry
05-21-2008 at 01:03 PM
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NiroZ
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Don't worry, we all agree with you.
05-21-2008 at 01:47 PM
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Its could be hard to play. :?

and how aboyt DRODs Popurality,it could drop down. :no

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05-21-2008 at 04:13 PM
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Beef Row
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Briareos wrote:
NiroZ wrote:
Maybe every time we suggest that someone use the search function, we should also remind them not to necro threads and to check the timestamps.
How about color-coding the posts by age?

Like - the older it is the less saturated the background color becomes, so that really old posts (1 year or older) are black on gray instead of black on color. :)

I dunno. I think black on black would be better myself.

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05-21-2008 at 07:36 PM
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dart193
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I think that we have off-topic. And next i say:
Hexa DROD is not good idea becouse in our world is 8...sides of world(i am not sure that you understand me): south north etc. And Hexa DROD will be unusual game... tooo unusual. I think that DROD is good enough. And it will looks like:
| .|. |. |.x| .|. |. |. |
. | .| .| .|. |. | .| .| .|
| .| .| .|B.| .| .| .| .|
How will roach X move on Beethro B? Left or right? And snakes will be looks like... i dont know what.
Points is for spaces because without it dont looks like HEXA

[Last edited by dart193 at 05-22-2008 10:57 AM]
05-22-2008 at 10:56 AM
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Beef Row wrote:
Briareos wrote:
How about color-coding the posts by age?

Like - the older it is the less saturated the background color becomes, so that really old posts (1 year or older) are black on gray instead of black on color. :)

I dunno. I think black on black would be better myself.
But then how would we tell what the thread is? :?

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05-23-2008 at 11:32 PM
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Monkey wrote:
But then how would we tell what the thread is? :?
Someone didn't get the joke.

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05-23-2008 at 11:50 PM
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Syntax
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How about automatically locking threads after 6 months? If something is still valid after that point, a new topic won't be considered out of order. Any relevance to the old thread could still be linked to.
05-27-2008 at 10:56 PM
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Briareos
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Syntax wrote:
How about automatically locking threads after 6 months? If something is still valid after that point, a new topic won't be considered out of order. Any relevance to the old thread could still be linked to.
I do hope you were thinking about making an exception for the H&S board - no thread ought to go out of date there.

And yet - is necroing so widespread that threads need to be automatically locked?

I think a few friendly slaps to the wrists of necroing evil-doers (and perhaps a more prominent indication of the last post's age) should suffice...

np: Saul Williams - Sunday Bloody Sunday (The Inevitable Rise And Liberation Of NiggyTardust!)

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05-27-2008 at 11:28 PM
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b0rsuk
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What's the big deal about necroing/bumping ?

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05-30-2008 at 08:32 PM
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AtkinsSJ
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I think the main issue is when people necro a 3-year old topic with...
:yes

Or something similar, which doesn't have a good reason. Though I suppose that doesn't actually cause any real problems. Nobody has died so far in relation to it, as far as I'm aware.
05-30-2008 at 09:10 PM
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b0rsuk
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AtkinsSJ wrote:
I think the main issue is when people necro a 3-year old topic with...
:yes

Or something similar, which doesn't have a good reason. Though I suppose that doesn't actually cause any real problems. Nobody has died so far in relation to it, as far as I'm aware.

As long as the necromancer cares to read the earlier discussion and not just repeat the same points, I think it's viable alternative to "use search button you idiot". Denying the newcomer the right to express his views just because you may have discussed it earlier is strange.

Back to topic: I don't think DROD has a lot to gain from hexes. Hexes represent distance more accurately, but it works best in open spaces. DROD contains lots of man-made, or goblin-made corridors. Humans tend to favor 90 degree architecture, because it's easier to plan and calculate. A lot of DROD action happens in tight corridors, where squares work ok. Diagonal corridors can be done, but they're fairly rare. They just don't look right. Square system is good for 4 directions, hexes are not.

I think hexes would be good for open spaces, but DROD needs corridors at some point. We know hexes have problems representing ordinary 90 degree corridors. Here's a crazy idea: make a DROD version with both squares and hexes. Squares for corridors and buildings, hexes for open spaces and natural features.

I hate to say it, but hexes may also reduce complexity. You end up with 6 directions instead of 8. There's just fewer options available. And, as others said, square inaccuracies make extra puzzles possible.

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06-02-2008 at 06:23 AM
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File: HexDrod Theory.txt (14.6 KB)
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icon Re: HexaDROD? (+3)  
After reading this thread, I got seriously thinking about how DROD would work on a hexagonal grid. I attached a text document with some detailed thoughts on the subject.
06-11-2008 at 06:10 PM
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Wow. That is amazing, and I think it could work. Could we implement gel in it?
06-12-2008 at 03:46 AM
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